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Old 06-15-2005   #31
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Medman, Equating the democratic party to socialism? Gary E, making this all about oil? There is not that much difference between the parties in my view. I dont like Bush because he is a tool of the Christian right and I still believe in seperation of church and state. Court appointments are what I fear from Bush or should I say Focus on the Family's appointments. I dont want to be a 'Christian' state. I am not against people beliefs so dont start the whole God vs. Satan debate but I dont want those beliefs pushed onto me. If you lived in Colorado Springs you might have a better understanding of what I mean.

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Old 06-15-2005   #32
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Old 06-15-2005   #33
ski/kayak bum
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 460
alright medman you asked for it-
what are you basing your Japan as number two and Germany as number three (GDP/GNP/Unemployment/what)? cause last time i checked Japan has been in a liquidity trap and recession since 1987 and germany's economy has lost "market share" in the world economy. not to mention germany's economy is heavily linked through the EU to those damn "socialist" nation-states that you mentioned. the EU nation-states are more comparable with our states not sovereign economies. with that said, the marshall plan (ww2 rebuilding agreement with Japan and ALL of europe) was a heavily subsidized agreement for the nations involved that was definied by the US giving huge amounts of aid which in turn had to be spent on american goods. this on the heals of FDR's second new deal which relieved the US from the great depression (most of the downfall called the great depression can be linked to a laisse faire style of government-if you dont know what this means look it up). Both the Marshall plan and the second new deal were "socialist" programs. this is the biggest problem with both free-trade and the "war" economy arguments, building our economy by destroying others (yes Iraq's economy has been destroyed) is not only immoral but unsustainable.
Alright now lets look at the last thirty years...Poverty rates in the US were at there lowest point during the LBJ admin. They have risen steadily since. Since reagan took office (the start of the neoconrevolution) the economy has crashed in 1982, 1987, 1992, and 2001. All under GOP leadership. EVERY YEAR since 1981 the income gap has widened, the middle class has grown smaller and continues to do so. Upward economic mobility has become harder EVERY YEAR since reagan took office. Real (economic term taking inflation into account) wages have not risen. The middle class is the driving force in our consumer society. Our trade deficit is the largest in the world (also unsustainable).
Now for the two most important points i can make...the biggest threat in the world is Capital Flight (think george soros, a dem. who has bankrupt many nations around the world). its bigger than terrorism and AIDS combined. This is becoming easier with free trade agreements and less regulation. Its much less public but very real (the asian tigers all crashed in the nineties because of this and many 100's of thousands of people starved to death in the matter of months). Number two is that we must fight against the so-called "moral" right wing. Its very similar to the islamic Jihad and the Crusades. It just hasnt fully come to fruition. If it does, coupled with the black/white view of the world, and huge amounts of money following it it will be our downfall. With the totalness of todays weapons it has the capability to make the for very serious consecuences.

as far as the personal attacks- i didnt suck on silver spoons/ i didnt go to CU/ i dont live in the mountains/ and i would hope that my knowledge of stats and economics is solid since i have a masters in Econometrics and am going to finish a PhD in International Political Economy. Oh and i have run two small businesses and now i work for a publically traded company.

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Old 06-15-2005   #34
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Old 06-15-2005   #35
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Allright double-a-ron you win. You've got the bigger dick. I've studied all that stuff enough to know that you have put a slant on it but I admit I don't know it well enough to argue it here. If i talked to a conservative economist he'd tell me something completely different so go and find him to argue with--I'm too tired to think anyway. Go out and boat and have a good time.
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Old 06-15-2005   #36
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I admit, this is my first post, but... there is truth in everything, and there is a shadow side/light side to everything... including Bush (light side...he'll die one day), but seriously, what is the point of spending all this time on a kayaking forum discussing politics? We already know the outcome. Everyone has a good point and is stupid at the same time... main point, it doesn't really matter. Just do a good job in your own world. Vote how you want. Be nice, make fun of hippies, whatever. Why not just spend this time making fun of front rangers or the yahoo website guy? That's just fun for fun's sake. Oh and medman... I'm glad you're out there keeping it real. I mean that, the rest of these guys won't.
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Old 06-15-2005   #37
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 131

First off why ruin such a good forum by mixing politics?

Second... all but few of my best freinds are democrats, and therefore allows me to express my frustration with those of you who just bash away at republicans thinking they are some evil you can't get along with!

Open your eyes and your mind they may be saving your ass some day on the river!!!!

I think it is truly unfortunate that politics have infiltrated this forum!
During election years so many people just get down right ugly because others don't share thier views!! c'mon people are you really that ignorant that you think John Kerry is right for your freind who owns a small business? or Bush is so right for a Veagan wanting equal rights for frigg'n animals? we are all different! I think too many people hate what they can't understand! With nothing to back it up! No real reason to hate other than the diagreement in personal views and life experiences!!! christ!
Talk about ignorance too! How many people are out there driving big SUV's carting their 6 kids around that are Democrat and bitching about gas prices in one conversation and complaining about the war in Iraq? and this is just the tip of the iceberg with the Hypocrisy!!!!

Here is my skinny!!!
Both parties have their extremes both left and right and those are both MINORITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh did I offend you? I'm sorry! wait no I'm not!!!! It's the truth and I refuse to apologize for the truth!! back to it, the majority of the U.S. is middle of the road some leaning to the left and some leaning to the right both which ar O.K. as long as you are not so self centered to think that only your views are best for the country!!!!
Think hard when your buddy is standing there with the throw bag! do you really care if he shares your political views??? NO, You care if the person has the skills and desire to save your ass for the sake of freindship based on human life and respect for it! c'mon people are saving those tubers!?
Yes I voted for Bush! a man who will kick ass in a time where the rest of the world needs to know who and what we stand for and does not care if he anger the minority populations who disagree! unlike Kerry, Bush SR. and Clinton!!!!!! Yes if the tables were turned I would vote Democrat if thet candidate could actually LEAD this country and as of now I dont see a good candidate from either side for the next election!

Padlle hard, safe and dont let politics ruin a paddling buddy relationship!!!
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Old 06-15-2005   #38
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medman sucks
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Old 06-15-2005   #39
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I was a liberal-lovin', peace, love and rock-n-roll hippy once... then one day as I was sitting on the couch, which had mirrors on the sides for cocaine use, I began to smell that distinct liberal odor that was eminating from my grungy hair and clothes. With tears in my eyes and I had to battle through an overwhelming stench of BO and patchouli oil to come to my realization that the only hippies left were the ones trying to steal my wallet in the parking lot of a Phish show. "Damn, I am such a loser. Look at me. I just sit around all day, doing nothing while getting high and blaming the republican, religous right for my problems in life." Yep, it wasn't me who was to blame for my inadequcies... it was the god damned republicans.

"Why do I stink so bad?" I thought to myself, "and what is this black shit under my finger nails?" Then the answer struck me with the weight of a moving Mack semi... or it could have been that Meals on Wheels truck— I stunk like a two-dollar whore who hadn't doushed in a couple months because I hadn't showered in two weeks and the smell of booze and that picture of Howard Dean I had ate for enlightenment was oozing out of my skin. Not only that, but that black shit under my finger nails turned out to be the remnants of the all that resin I scraped out of my bong the night before in my futile attempt to get high. Afterall, I was poor and I did vote for Al Gore... so I guess I was a liberal, drug-using, anti-conforming, Volvo-drivin', lefty who wasn't in it for the MONEY but more for the DRUGS. Yep, you heard me, I was in it to use (re-use and re-use again... oh that resin is so good) drugs and force the federal government and all of you righteous, righty, tighty-whiteee wearin', W-lovin', conservatives to pay for my extended stay at the state-mandated and federally funded drug treatment center, otherwise know as prison.

I didn't like who I had become... this liberal light. I told myself that I was going to beat the inner-hippy out of me, even if it meant watching 100 straight hours of non-stop Bill O'Reilly TV while in bed next to Michael Jackson at one of his sleep-overs while sipping a glass of wine and watching pornography. That would have to be better than being a democrat-lovin', flag-burning, ACLU card-holdin', Phish-listenin' liberal... right? So for the next couple of years I attended Bob Jones University, the Catholic Church, watched Fox News and began to see the true conservative light at the end of Pat Buchanon's nose. Life wasn't about using drugs everyday and leaching off society at the cost of all us hard-working republicans. NO, what it was really about was SELLING the drugs to the fixed-income elderly and drug-addicted youth at exubarently high prices so the right-wing medmans and his chronies can play a couple extra rounds of golf this week and bitch about how the poor suck so bad as they smoke $100 Cuban cigars and dream about having sex with their mom.

Oh my Sean Hannity!!!

I had found the answer I had been looking for along... and I didn't have to go much further than Larimer County and Marilyn Musgrave to do it. DAMN RIGHT those gays shouldn't be allowed to marry!!!

Once I was a republican, I knew for a fact that I worked harder than any of those welfare-using vermen, or people who make less than $30,000 a year, therefore I could rightly afford my $100 cigars and $200 rounds of golf while children starved on the streets of downtown Denver, begging for some change to get a Happy Meal. "Blame their parents," I would say to... well anybody next me. "If their parents weren't off using drugs and having gay butt sex under a bridge somewhere then these kids would be in school right now... learning about God." Yep, I would troll the streets of Denver in my luxury car telling anyone who would listen that I am studying a 600-page book right now and that makes me better than you, so back off and don't even try and tell me what the color of shit is, because I am a republican damn it, and if anybody knows what color shit is, it's ME!

That was my life until I began to read this thread... oh my, my, my. Now, after listening to all of you talk about GDPs, econometrics, 80-hour work weeks and which has the larger economy, Germany or the crabs on my roommate's ballsack, I have to say that anyone who takes any of this seriously is the real, without a doubt, schmuck. Politics and this thread aren't meant to be taken seriously... that's what we elect (or don't elect.... hhummm, Florida, 2000) politicians for— to do our dirty work for us. Take it all in good fun or get out!! That's my two cents... and yes, I am also the result of a sexual act.
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Old 06-15-2005   #40
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Indian Hills, Colorado
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brettb et. al. This is a politics thread not a SWR thread. I think all of us would toss our throw bag to W himself if he was swimming toward a strainer. (great imagery by the way)

Like all buzz threads, this one will be just a memory by the weekend and lofty topic like "how to sooth poison ivy in one's butthole" or "can you can get crabs from swapping boats" will return for next Monday.

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