Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-27-2009   #21
The Russian
kazak4x4's Avatar
SLC, Utah
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,380
I saw his site, raftus, why is he so much cheaper than the others? Is he using the same aluminum as other companies?

kazak4x4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009   #22
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883
Originally Posted by BarryDingle View Post
Don't listen to RichP,he thinks PRO is better than Moenkopi too
Barry, Barry, Barry,

Where did you ever get the idea I had a preference like that? The only problem I have with Brady at Moenkopi, is that the guy is so young and energetic, I am consumed with envy....

Have a good one.

Rich Phillips
The Geezer

richp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009   #23
Avon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 471
i like NRS also. Not close.

i have both type of fittings on my frame. DRE fittings have the allen tightening screw. It comes loose after a few trips. I have the nice DRE footbar and just replaced the fittings to be NRS lowpro.

Like Rich said, the NRS lowpro are way more versatile and are beefier. Have you ever tried to move a DRE fitting. On various frames (mine and others) you have to get a hammer/rock and alternate slamming each side to micro adjust the rail. NRS- just remove and place where you want.

DRE looks pretty...but basically you have a single setup unless you have 2 hours to move stuff. I move from center to stern position in 10 minutes, relocating seats, and oar towers.
ENDOMADNESS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009   #24
dgosn's Avatar
San Juans, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 485
Originally Posted by kazak4x4 View Post
I saw his site, raftus, why is he so much cheaper than the others? Is he using the same aluminum as other companies?
Gary seems to be a utilitarian rafter, makes his prices cheap. I bought a already made frame from him, i didnt like the geometry, but quality was great. Frame has been beaten down a few times and will continue too with no signs of breaking.

My ultimate frame would be a hybrid of DRE/Hollander fittings and NRS sized pipe and oar towers. i HATE set screw oar towers, NRS, i think, are better. If gary @ has the ability to make frames with NRS sized tubing that would be my first choice.

I like NRS fittings, everything is secured by a sold u bolts, once tighten the DO NOT loosen. ideally I'd have some bends to save money and weight as opposed to 1.1 lbs NRS fittings, but for changing bay sizes for coolers dry boxes, etc i like the NRS better than Hollander.

Coincidentally most of my friends like their DRE frame better.....
Sport Climbing is Neither
--The Verm
dgosn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009   #25
Andy H.'s Avatar
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,909
I own one of each and there are pros and cons to each. With the setup I have compared to a NRS Bighorn I:

DRE Pros:
Seat can't be beat for comfort
Customized to your boat
Rock solid sturdy
DRE stands behind their product (i haven't had to test this out) and is 3 miles away.
Frame can be completely broken down and fits in rocket box on roof (seat inside car)
Bays/configuration are adjustable to many possible configurations

DRE cons:
Set screws can eventually drill through pipe if you break your frame down too many times
DRE frame is more expensive (see "stand behind product" and "custom built" above)
They are heavier

NRS Pros:
Lighter weight
More easily adjustable, U-bolts don't seem to cause wear on pipe
National dealer network
Fittings are good bomber and easily adjustable

NRS Cons:
6" oar towers too low for me, had to upgrade to 8" (somehow RichP is taller, likes the 6" towers)
Short tractor seat not as comfortable as DRE
Pipe strength likely much less than DRE
Footbar seems likely to bend if I really crank on oars and brace hard against it (it still seems OK but I'm just sayin' how it feels)

Personally I think they're both good, but I was glad to have my solid DRE on the Grand. That said, I'd expect an NRS would've done fine.

I've had 2 flips with my DRE - on one the boat got slammed against the Magnetic Wall after SITM, only the oar lock was bent. Not sure if a NRS would've fared any better or worse.

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
Andy H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009   #26
raftus's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Originally Posted by kazak4x4 View Post
I saw his site, raftus, why is he so much cheaper than the others? Is he using the same aluminum as other companies?
I am just guessing here but I think his overhead is a lot smaller as he builds from his home shop. DRE and NRS use anadonized aluminum, Gary is using non-anodized, I don't think that there is a strength difference, anadonized is prettier though, and more expensive. Gary also makes his own fittings so no middle man markup there. His oar towers are bomber - three set screws instead of two. In truth DRE charges a fairly hefty markup. I'm not saying that they are charging outrageous prices by any means - they make a good product, support the paddling community and have a great staff. But their margins are reflected in their prices.

A raft frame is a very simple thing when it is assembled out of standard aluminum pipe and speed rail fittings. Bending pipe is also a fairly straightforward thing - many muffler shops do it everyday. There is no need for a raft frame to be greatly expensive. I will add the caveat that some frames, like the beautiful ones made by MadCatr are in a different category.
raftus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009   #27
jimr's Avatar
Donkey Town, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 144
I have a DRE but have rowed NRS plenty of times and I think it comes down to weight, strength and adjusabiltiy
by far heavier than the NRS, thus it is way more bomber
more/nicer options for fishing
Easier to adjust
Holds your gear well
Bomb through big water

Thier rafts suck big time

Lighter than DRE

NRS CONS-the frames flex under a lot of weight.

As a fisherman I like both frames, I have a DRE but am looking to buy an NRS for certain floats where you need to be more mobile and lighter. Love my DRE, it is bomber through rapids, holds a lot of weight for big trips, and I love the quick release pins, plus tons of options.

I would say if you are running big water or doing long trips you might want to go with a DRE or River Boat Works. NRS seems to flex when you have a lot of gear on board. If you are just booze cruisen or floating small tech rivers, roll with the NRS.
jimr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009   #28
rwhyman's Avatar
Unincorporated Douglas County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 961
Don't forget about AAA Inflatables!! Mark And Judy are great people.
Karma is like this: If we set causes in motion the effects come back to us.
rwhyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009   #29
Somewhere in, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
I've never ran a DRE frame before. Eyeballed them a lot, but I went with a NRS Bighorn II and have found it to be awesome for the boating I do. Smaller, more technical water, in a 15' boat. Ran the MF of the Salmon last summer for 7 days and had pleanty of gear/weight, and didn't notice any performace issues (i.e. flexing) at all. The ability to 'micro-adjust' the frame during a trip is pretty easy and cool. Also, NRS sells the fittings and tubing seperatey which give you the option to make your own 'custom' frame as you like it. I am kind of a DIY guy, without the welding skills though. Dig the NRS frame, from a biased perspective.
Soup76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2009   #30
lhowemt's Avatar
at my house, Montana
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,346
I "made" my own NRS/speedrail frame for my raft. Just sketched it up, and bought custom cut length pipes. I mostly used the NRS fittings I am not confident enough on the speedrail set screws for critical joints, although many people use them, and abuse them just fine. I agree with dgosn, the set screw oar towers leave something to be desired, but they are the only option for tall oar towers. NRS's 8" towers aren't really even that tall, so if you sit on your cooler or drybox most people need something taller. NRS really needs to get on that and make some more heights.

I really like the adjustability of my NRS frame, I can move around the cross bars however I want. One advantage the welded frames has is the rounded corners let you get more space within the frame without extending the length of the frame on the tubes. With the NRS pipe your front and rear cross pieces must be a bit inside of the end of the pipe, and on the welded ones the cross pieces extend outside of the ends of the pipe (front is more forward, and rear is more back). While you lose bow/stern space, you have more room for dryboxes and stuff on your frame.

With my 14' boat (smallish), I do envy that aspect of the welded frames. maybe I just need to suck it up and get longer bars even if they extend out a tiny bit past the flat section. I have chafe there, so maybe I will someday.

I know i would be unhappy with a completely welded frame, as I tinker with my rigging a lot and if I couldn't move the cross bars of my frame I'd hate it.

I am a river, babe - I've got plenty of time, I don't know where I'm going, I'm just following the lines..... - "We are water" by Shaye
lhowemt is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stolen: 2 Red Patagonia Kids PFD's, 1 Adult XS NRS Yellow PFD, NRS Hydrosilk LS Shirt 10grtkids Lost & Found 0 05-17-2009 11:50 AM
frames nicho Commercial Posts 12 04-26-2009 03:03 PM
DRE Pro Series 14'er coronet Whitewater Kayaking 14 03-23-2009 09:47 AM
Do you run DRE oar stands, full height or taller? lhowemt Kayaking | Gear Talk 28 06-27-2008 08:28 AM
DRE Flip seat lhowemt Whitewater Kayaking 9 06-06-2008 08:47 AM

» Classified Ads
Jackson Rock Star(Medium)

posted by Paddling Life

Brand new 2016 Jackson Kayak Rock Star

*!* Pyranha S6 200 with...

posted by MaxwellSilverKayak

Pyranha S6 200 playboat for sale. Great for larger...

Fred the Fuse 48

posted by kayaklifeislife

My first boat the Wavesport Fuse 48 I'm just putting it on...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.