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Old 01-23-2012   #1
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 21
No Dogs on Westwater beginning March 2012

Just spoke to Moab BLM office- its true.....Westwater to Cisco- NO dogs.
It was supposed to post on their website last week...should be posted today sometime.
Not lookin to start the "...dogs on the river..." conversation again, just puttin out the FYI.
BUT, theres no rules against cats! so, this weekend , we're headin to the human society and gonna adpot 10 cats, get 'em pfds, and prepare for a March 3 launch....after we've all floated through Ruby Horsethief that is (no number of cat limit- only number of dogs limit there). Anyone know how to 'cat-proof' a paco?
(no, I'm not serious, and I don't abuse cats...I'm the biggest animal rights person you'll ever meet...just making a joke out of a bummer of a subject)

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Old 01-23-2012   #2
lhowemt's Avatar
at my house, Montana
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,347
That just sucks. The BLM bureaucracy is so incredibly F'd up. No dogs, but rip apart the countryside for oil shale all you want. You can clip a cats nails, but they sharpen up really fast.

I am a river, babe - I've got plenty of time, I don't know where I'm going, I'm just following the lines..... - "We are water" by Shaye
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Old 01-23-2012   #3
Nederland, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 29
Cats are OK!

Just also got off the phone with BLM in MOAB. It is true no dogs! I did ask if cats, birds, hamsters, rats, mice, and anything else was band and they stated NO. Only dogs. I asked why are they against dogs only? They responded that it was because of the complaints they received about dogs poop at the camps, dogs running wild at the put in and take out. I'd like to ask why we don't band the commercial company's from the river. Most of their guides are dogs, most of their clients run around at the put in and take out like lost dogs and most of their clients are to afraid to poop in the grover and just poop on land also like dogs. I've seen more human wast at the campsite then dog. This is a shame I feel that BLM should get their heads out of the dogs A$$ and and see the real problem that plagues our rivers.
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Old 01-23-2012   #4
T up
summit co / Tucson az, were im at
Paddling Since: 00
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 26
Be careful about not talking too much shit about commercial guides! Remember were people too. I dont disagree that we should be able to bring our dogs anyware we want as your right my dogs are way more well behaved than my guests most of the time ,But dont go guide bashing!! You might find yourself in the r.o.d seeking a guides help to unf*ck your situation..As a guide myself im inclined to help everyone that needs it but have reservations about helping entitled private boaters. So once again be nice. commercial river guides have the best job in the world,Dont be jealous..
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Old 01-23-2012   #5
Nederland, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 29

I also know a lot of private boaters that are DOGS and was just making a point about the overuse of the rivers more buy people then any animals. Mainly by commercials that take 40 people down at a time. Our group also help's anyone out when the time is needed. I can remember helping the commercial groups more then I have any private boaters. I have been in the R.O.D (room of doom) and you are more then welcome to help me crack my beer when the time comes and if the helps is need in a worse situation I thank you for it and will also return it. You are wrong about guides having the best job in the world. The best job in the world is being a trust-fund baby and living on the river setting up your own tent and only your tent.
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Old 01-23-2012   #6
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,408
If all the dog owners at WestWater put in followed the rules IE kept their dogs on a leash, picked up the poop and kept the dog from barking at all hours of the night - I would agree that having your dog along was ok.

This is not the case. The dog owners that obey the rules are outnumbered big time by those who do not. I have not camped at West Water camp ground as much as a lot of you have but have been there most years over the last ten or so years. I cannot recall a time when camped there that one or more dogs ran thru our camp peeing and pooping, barking multiple times at night or what ever. I lost count of when I have seen the Ranger finally ask a dog owner whose pets were racing around the ramp peeing and pooping on peoples gear and the dog owner put on a leash but let the dog run free soon as the Ranger went back to the trailer. It is unfortunate but the only way to keep the dogs on a leash and under control is 24 hour 7 day Ranger walking the camp and ramp area.

I am very sorry that the dog owners that do the right thing cannot take their dogs on this river trip.

I am extremely glad the Rangers stood up and started enforcing the no dog rule for the camping enjoyment for those of us who follow the rules and enjoy a bit of enjoyment on the river relatively free from outside distractions.

I am a dog owner, would like to take my leash trained Auzzie Shepard on some river trips but realize my fun having my dog along most likely will interfere with some one else's fun who is not a dog lover.

Flame away all you want, but I bet most campers at West Water put in are really glad the no dog rule is gonna be enforced.
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Old 01-23-2012   #7
OlyPen, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 85
okieboater, I agree 110% with you. As a dog owner myself, I avoid some areas where other people let their dogs run wild, don't pick up their poop, and basically cause these kinds of bans.

The rotten behaviors (both dogs and owners) you describe are what I've seen in all kinds of public areas, not just river camps.

I, too, completely support the restrictions, since BLM did at least TRY the other way first!
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Old 01-23-2012   #8
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 21
Another FYI: Dogs are banned on Deso too...starting this year. (no more 'dog season' in the fall)
The Westwater restriction will not solve all the dog problems, do realize: there will still be plenty of canines running around at both Westwater and Cisco ......plenty of dog containing groups will be taking out after coming down R.H.T. and I highly suspect many more now putting in at being a float without dog restrictions.

Can you imagine the shit show when I show up with my newly adopted 10 cats sporting their new pfds and screaming cussing husband cause the Pacos don't hold air now? And all those -now- 'Ruby Horsethief' dogs are now gonna be chasin cats and barkin and peeing and pooing everywhere anyhow.

Yeah, I've got a couple dawgs, they love the river, we pick up poo as much as possible, heck, the wolfhound even pees in the river when she's gotta go, we leash and tie up as much as possible...don't want no trouble...but I'll also admit, they're not perfect either....and neither are any of Your kids much as you'ld defend 'em to the dieing breath.
It's an owner issue...the dogs are just bein dogs. If your dog peed on my bag, shitskies, then MY dog is gonna pee on MY bag! Thanks alot!
If my dog peed on Your bag...I'ld gladly offer to wash it off (before your own darn dog peed on it too! and hand ya a beer while I did so).

Darn shame.
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Old 01-23-2012   #9
Thronton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by coloradogem View Post
....and neither are any of Your kids much as you'ld defend 'em to the dieing breath...
My kids have never pooped or peed at the put-in or take-out, or on anyone elses gear while at the river. That I can assure you. They have been put on a leash a time or too... LOL

Originally Posted by coloradogem View Post
....It's an owner issue...
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Old 01-23-2012   #10
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 403
There's nothing that IS'NT bad ass about 10 cats in pfd's running the shit. Cats act like they don't like water but next time you're at a big rapid, chuck a cat or two in and you'll see how much they love that shit. Seriously, Paco's don't need to hold air to be comfortable anyway.

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