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Old 09-07-2007   #1
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 325
No boats in Wilderness?

Check out this link:

Its got nothing to do with CO, but it easily could. Take a minute and write the USFS so they can get their policy right.

Chris Morrison
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Old 09-07-2007   #2
oarbender's Avatar
ww guide/ frame builder/welder, mobile fabrication gig
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 247
good thing Im outta beer, or I'd probably drink till I puked, and then do it again. that is the biggest crock of shit I have heard in, well a long time.

thanks for posting this.

also, several years ago, I was doing some papers, and most of them were based around the

FEE DEMO program.

if not familiar, see

recreation fee demonstation program.

sorry, no links, but im sure all kinds of goods will fill after a quick google search.

One link I remember

Free Our Forests Home Page.

BTW, note sent

again, thanks for posting..

see you on the river boofing on a kid, in my tube

Expedition Gear Rental
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Old 09-07-2007   #3
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 505
Boofing kids is NOT cool!!!!
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Old 09-07-2007   #4
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 94
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I'm pretty sure at those river levels, the only way you could hit a kid is if they were drowning in the hydro below a drop. maybe that's just me.
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Old 09-08-2007   #5
V for Victory
9300ft, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
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someone should tell those fishermen that their fishing rods have more moving parts than a kayak
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Old 09-08-2007   #6
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Teacher, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 308

In response to what deepstroke said " boofing is not cool"

I was once on this “wilderness” run lets call it the “big south” I was setting up to run one of the harder drops lets call it “double trouble” and man just as I was pulling the late boof stroke over the last hole I saw this other person practicing his right to use the wilderness in another way “lets call him a tuber” So what did I do you ask? I boof right onto his dam head. What else could I do I did not want to be in that hole.. So I boofed the shit out of it and bam!! Right on his head.. It was horrible not only did I crack the hull of my boat on his noggin, but I got bounced back into the hole and knocked him out of it. Then once I was done throwing up water after taking the beating of my life the “tuber” comes up to me and says that he was a “playtuber” and I messed up his ride..
That article is right we should not be in wilderness areas, what with our creek boating messing up the environment and obvious disrespect for out fellow users like my friend the “playtuber” and his buddy the fisherman. You know I once read a study where kayaking was as invasive to wilderness as the drilling for oil and gas they are doing across much of the BLM land..
I am just glad we have AW to keep us on top of all these kinds of issues, can you imagine a world where this kind of thought was allowed to exist. Support AW, because they will keep stuff like this from happening!!
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Old 09-08-2007   #7
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Posts: 557
it's funny, because I think those anglers and hikers are diminishing my wilderness experience.
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Old 09-08-2007   #8
Vail, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1066
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 165

Anyone else write? I sent the message below to the address in the article. It seems stupid to even suggest that eliminting Kayakers from the river would help. How many tubers/bathers have you seen leaving their sh!t on the banks of the river. Just look at the Hippie Dip in Glenwood vs. the river left springs that can only be accessed by boat. I'm preaching to the choir, but we need to make our arguments known to those who don't.

Hello Francis,

I am writing you from Vail, CO in response to an article I read about limiting the use of public land and water by kayakers. I understand the goal of keeping the wilderness wild, however I am uncertain whether kayakers actually diminish the wild experience or have a greater impact than other users. I think you will find that most kayakers are passionate about maintaining the wild and are good stewards of the land. They also have less impact on the river environment than anglers or hikers. Anglers leave lost line, luers/flies and tread directly on the river bottom disrupting delicate moss and algae. Hikers tread heavily in both directions, kayakers generally only walk in then boat out. These are some things to keep in mind when setting a potentially dangerous precedent.

Thanks for your time.
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Old 09-08-2007   #9
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 156
Any support you all can give would be greatly appreciated. It is a beautiful run, and into a rare remote area here in the east.

I am stoked that some of you are checking this issue out but Francis Marion is a National Forest not a person. I could see the mistake 100% just thought it was funny. Please send some letters.
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Old 09-09-2007   #10
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Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,727
Here's what I wroe to "Francis"

I've recently become aware of pressures from anglers to ban kayaking from certain wilderness stretches on the Chatooga river.

I understand that they want the river to themselves and are willing to make absurd statements to attain this goal.

Comparisons of creek boating to ATV use are absurd. If you start to see jet skis launching off of waterfalls, then we can start to compare.

A comparison to mountain bikers vs. hikers is closer, but still off base, as kayaks rarely pose threats of collision like a bike might, nor do they erode the trails, with minor exception.

Kayakers leaving trash behind is a relative non-issue. While there are sloppy folks in any demographic, kayakers, as a group, are more likely to pack it out than in.

Another scare tactic was the idea that kayakers might land on kids in inner-tubes swimming in pools below waterfalls. While it is possible for that to occur, it is very unlikely. Most places with enough water to kayak are not safe swimming holes in the first place. Kayakers are also a relatively safe bunch and will check any blind landings for obstructions such as logs and are likely to notice swimmers at the same time. Is there even a single documented case of this?

In short the anglers seem to be saying "That's mine" and have come up with some bogus safety concerns to justify the claim. Maybe they should just say honestly "I prefer to have the creek to myself". To which I respond: "sorry it is not yours, exclusively".

Please don't be swayed by efforts to ban kayaking on the creeks that you manage.

Thanks for listening, Dave Frank


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