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Old 07-21-2004   #1
Ft. Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 139
Need Roll advice: Can't flip upside-down!

I'm hoping some experienced kayakers can give me some advice on a problem im having with my roll. When i flip over to practice my roll, about 60% of the time I do not flip completely over (ie, head pointing straight at the bottom of the river). Instead I find myself "stuck" in a position where my boat is resting on its side instead of completely flipped over. At this point my head is usually close to the surface in the setup position on the side of the boat which I plan to roll up on. In order to get my paddle into position to roll up, i find that i need to take one hand off of the paddle and use it to flip myself completley over. This has 2 disadvantages, one is that it takes longer to roll up, and the second is that my paddle hand position often gets messed up from taking one hand off the paddle. I'm doing a C to C roll, and paddling a perception phat creek boat, and can roll up 100% of the time in flat water. I thought this might be due to having air trapped in my drytop and getting all the air out seems to help a little but not a lot. Anyone ever hear anyone with a problem like this? Any suggestions?


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Old 07-21-2004   #2
Boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 130
Question.. do you have a rescue PFD? They are more buoyant.

Since this is for practice rolls, try "flipping over" in the other direction.

Otherwise, I would try to work on just starting my roll from the position where you are stuck at. You might have to modify your roll a bit, but this is something you will have to deal with in a combat-roll situation anyway.

Cheyenne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2004   #3
Boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 33
Try shaking your hips until the boat goes all the way over. And never let your head point straight at the bottom of the river. Lean forward for protection.
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Old 07-21-2004   #4
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 480
Lean forward when you flip over and wiggle.
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Old 07-21-2004   #5
Ft. Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 139
Im using a pretty beefy non-rescue kayaking pfd.

Its hard to visualize on dry land, but i think to roll from the half upside down sidways position you'd have to move your paddle from one side to another underwater which i guess is a useful technique anyway to from offside to onside, vice versa when combat rolling.

I will try the hip shake/wiggle techniqe, thank you both!
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Old 07-21-2004   #6
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 245
I find myself in this situation occasionally, one thing to do is give a fakie roll, just sweep from set up and then go back to set up. this often pulls you thru enough to find the right setup. then do your roll.

the other option is to use the chance to work on your offside. I rarely find I have the peace of mind to remember this...

of course, sweeping from one side to the other will often complete the flip for you anyway!!

I find it happens worse when I have a drytop full of air, but haven't decided yet if it's a good thing to expel some air from your skirt to vacuum your top on, as it then is creating a negative pressure that will also suck water in if it gets the chance (i.e. while you're flailing around, etc) there's a happy medium in there somewhere!

good luck!!
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Old 07-22-2004   #7
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
If you're doing it all of the time you may need a smaller boat. Or outfit your boat tighter. Or do what they said.
Kyle McCutchen
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Old 07-22-2004   #8
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 40
I used to have this problem all of the time and it really screws up your timing on rolling. One of the things that I changed that seemed to help was not wearing thick fleece under my dry top as it holds too much air. I second the wiggle to get through it. Also, if you are leaning forward when you go over it should help some too. I really can't put my finger on when this problem stopped happening to me, but it rarely if ever happens now, but it totally plauged me for three or so years. May have to do with the boat, but I think getting the air out of my dry top helped the most. Good luck. Once you stop this from happening rolling really does get much much easier...


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