Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-30-2009   #31
Evergreen, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 316
Well I have to say that I do feel a little bit bad for how I worded my thoughts on REP. (even though I did not get a PM... Just a little jealous) We do have them to thank for several really super cool spots. We are just not really good at saying when things really work well: For example Salida and BV are both world class play spots in my opinion. And there maybe other spots that work really well. I would love to hear a longer list of great spots they have built.

What stands out in many peoples minds are spots like Golden and Boulder creek. It feels to me like they have plenty of potential to be really amazing locations. Bingo hole was an example as I think it was actually cooler than Lawson, so far as low volume play spots go. REP went in to "fix" Bingo hole and now we ended up with a barely surfable wave. This kind of thing is what has created all of the tension we feel with Lawson.

benrodda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2009   #32
I kayak DH.
Waterwindpowderrock's Avatar
Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 794
The way I see it is that it's 50% luck, about 1/2 of the stuff they do works, and the other half doesn't. That makes me think we're talking a 50% chance that they'll screw up Lawson, that's not an acceptable set of odds in my opinion for something that worked perfectly before they got there.

But hey, when all the noobies come to Lawson, they'll maybe stop at subway or starbucks, I'm sure that'll give them a return on their investment...

Discover Denver, stay there!
Waterwindpowderrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2009   #33
I kayak DH.
Waterwindpowderrock's Avatar
Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 794

so, on friday I stopped down to look at the progress but instead of doing my normal side of the exit inspection I went into the park to check it out & see how things looked up close. A guy walked up & introduced himself, turned out to be Shane, we got to talking for a while (he asked me if I was Mark, I thought that was funny (the Keen stickers on my truck I suppose) We talked a lot about about the perceptions of folks on here & how we criticized a lot, but none of us had made the effort to even contact them or give any type of input during the first 3 years of input (I'm definitely guilty on this one).

I expressed my general concern for how close to the main hole the feature below it was, and the fact that the water had risen below the hole.

The main thing I took away from the conversation was the general commitment to this WORKING & that if the lawson hole was negatively effected they would be back to fix it & make it work again. His was the part I didn't expect & was pretty surprised by how firm he was about it, it wasn't some wishy washy "well, we'll do what we can" kind of commitment, it was a firm, it will work or we will fix it. This went a long way in settling my mind.

Overall I was impressed, glad I stopped by & glad Shane took the time to talk & explain things. He seemed like a good guy. (so does that mean I have to give him a big sloppy wet kiss as well if it works?)
Discover Denver, stay there!
Waterwindpowderrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2010   #35
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,136
Stopped by yesterday returning from skiing. Looks good, just needs water.

Does anyone know timetable for removing culverts and replacing with a bridge?

Also is there a putin above here for rafts?
Rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2010   #36
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 45
Weird thread- We built Glenwood, Avon, Frisco, The bladders at Vail, and Canon City.
everything propagates as a wave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2010   #37
I kayak DH.
Waterwindpowderrock's Avatar
Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 794
An update to this thread after a few days of play at different levels. Twitch & I went up today (played from 580 to 520) and gave it an honest try at proving our previous opinions wrong!

I had previously been in the park at 220 (a common later season flow) and 350 (approx. where we start seeing the main hole being nice & sticky & the low end of good play.). At these levels there was one other hole that you could surf, the rest were just too flushy. The main hole felt more flushy, but was lightly playable, being the only decent feature there.

At 520-580 it was ok, the main hole is a shadow of what it used to be, a significant change in flow from above has caused it to be MUCH less sticky. The other holes are less than ideal, but a couple are somewhat usable. The top hole (big ramp) was supposed to be an "expert" feature, it's pretty useless at all flows that I've seen it at. It's good for a high speed front surf but that's about it. The next two below the main hole are minimally retentive & are decent for a bit of surf, not terribly good for anything but a bit of surfing though unfortunately. The last wave was poor in the 5's having lost any hold, again one you could front surf, but anything else would get you a ride down river.

I wish I could say that I was surprised, but having the best hole within 100 miles of Denver negatively impacted for the benefit of a few holes that are a waste of time at low to medium flows is a pretty big bummer. I hope they live up to their promises & come back & fix what they did
Discover Denver, stay there!
Waterwindpowderrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2010   #38
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 566

"We built Glenwood, Avon, Frisco, Vail, and Canyon City?"

Glenwood - a giant chunk of concrete in the largest volume river in CO does not make a play park. I don't see families wading in the water there enjoying the new ammenities....speaking of which, where are all the aforementioned ammenities that are so important like parking, bathrooms, changing rooms, walking paths, and the like?"

Avon - whatever.

Frisco - I'm sorry, haven't heard much buzz on the Frisco WW park, but 10 mile is a nice run.

Vail - my bad, I don't have the keys for the bladder control and I'm not able to be in town during the TMG. Short of that, where's the fun for a recreational boater? Oh that's right, it's not available.

Canyon City - really, did we need another WW park? Who convinced CC that this would be a good investment of their money? Haven't heard too many people planning their weekends around what's going down in CC....just sayin. While we're at it, I think Kremmling is a PRIME location for the next big thing in WW parks....

In the words of all the fishermen, families, and cyclists that were there yesterday (beginner boaters were no-where to be found...must be something about the COLD) - "Why would they put this here and not down in Idaho Springs by the park?"

For the record, I'm a fan of the work the guys at do (just not officially on FB) - but someone should have sacked up at the meeting table and said, "This is wrong, this is not right, we should re-examine the choice of location for this project." Currently fishermen roam that park like they own it, they trickle downstream onto private property causing conflict with local landowners, and they're not likely to be open to a dialog with kayakers about who has the right of way.

On the flip side, I did stop to use the bathrooms at Burger King in Dumont. Is that the type of ROI that Clear Creek County was looking for?
twitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2010   #39
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 566
We are not touching the "Lawson Hole" and have no intention of changing that feature
- Oops, see below.

It's called "plates of fun" and is located just upstream of the Lawson Hole
- 2 questions. 1. Does 10 tons of Concrete = "plates of fun"? 2. How can you imagine achieving your goal stated in quote #1 if you admittedly are going to alter the river and the flow above the drop. I don't built WW Parks for a living, but I do have a good general understanding of how things work...and this doesn't work.

What I do know for sure is that the place I am raising my kids, Salida, is a better place to live because people get to enjoy the Ark in downtown and I know others that would say the same thing about their hometowns where we have built parks; like Golden, or Reno, NV or San Marcos, TX, to name a few
- Mike, I consider you a friend as well as an innovator, not to mention one of the best ambassadors our sport could have. However, the main challenge here is that a WW Park built roadside along the busiest HWY in CO is NOT GOING TO BENEFIT A COMMUNITY in the manner that Salida, BV, San Marcos, Golden, or Reno will. Why? Because all of those are built IN THE TOWNS business center.....NOT UP THE ROAD ALONG THE HWY.

I have a lot of respect for all parties involved in this discussion, but very little for those that allowed this to be developed where it was. I hope that this dialog will prove useful in future planning of recreational improvements in waterways here and elsewhere.

twitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2010   #40
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 772
I stopped at Lawson on Friday afternoon to play on my way to Paddlefest. It was around 350, which used to be when the hole started to give up pretty much any trick you wanted to try. Now the hole is flushy and does not have the power it had. I was disappointed and had stayed away from the bashing during construction, but now that I know it has been screwed up I can say I won't be back.

My only question to the design of the feature above is how did you figure you could change the flow path to enter on the river left and not effect the hole? The flow used to enter down the center.

Nathan is online now   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
lawson today bshack93 Kayaking | Trip Planner 0 07-06-2007 09:35 AM
Lawson (Dumont) SeLF Kayaking | Trip Planner 4 05-29-2007 06:30 PM
Where is the Lawson Rodeo? crazynenana Whitewater Kayaking 18 05-26-2007 07:13 AM
where is lawson hole? liam dunn Whitewater Kayaking 8 05-09-2006 01:53 PM
Lawson anyone? Lawson? peteg Kayaking | Trip Planner 0 05-24-2005 05:35 PM

» Classified Ads
Pyranha Burn 3 XL

posted by Rendezvous River Sports


whitewater kayaks

posted by leatherneck

2012 Fluid Solo Expedition kayak. Boat is in good shape....

Wave Sport Ethos 10

posted by davidwsilver

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:49 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.