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Old 05-25-2007   #11
I kayak DH.
Waterwindpowderrock's Avatar
Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 794
The project & Star series are both GREAT boats. I personally think the "buy a boat that you'll never be able to do anything else in because it's a tiny bit easier to roll" Idea is crap. I can't imagine not having been able to play in the playpark my first year, that's where you become a versatile boater.

"Bottom line: F middle of the road boats...I hate 'em...I hate the Z, I hate GTs and RPMs...they don't do anything well and nobody wants to keep them after year 1 unless they're going to use it to take the occasional friend out. They're a waste of money. Might as well start in a creeker, and then you have a class V boat when you want it. If you want to get into play later, then pick up a playboat."


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Old 05-26-2007   #12
Telluride, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1492
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 207
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You might want to consider a "free-runner" style boat like the Jackson Fun series or the Liquid Logic CR's. They're not quite as small as playboats (close though), but they are more versatile. They'll be easier to learn in than a playboat but your skill level won't outgrow the boat. They're strong for downriver generally up to class IV+ and they're pretty good in the playparks.
Unless you're looking to get into downriver racing, I'd stay away from boats that weren't designed in the last 5 years or so (like the RPM, etc.). In the long run you'll be much happier.
Just a suggestion.

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Old 05-26-2007   #13
COUNT's Avatar
Summit, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,085
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Stars and Funs are good suggestions. The S6 is the best boat ever made. Period. (Very biased opinion ). Project is a great boat. If you like that, also checkout the ZG.

Mre, what size is your S6 and what are you asking for it?

"The world would be a better place if everyone kayaked."-Brad Ludden (Valhalla)
"You only get one chance to run a drop blind."-DD
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Old 05-26-2007   #14
DanOrion's Avatar
Indian Hills, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,448
My 2-cents:

One of the best way to get your roll bomber and get comforable in the water is to hit the play parks hard. For this to be fun, you'll want a play boat. I love my project52 and would strongly recommend it...great boat. I'm a little nervous about the plastic being soft, but it is comfortable, easy to throw around, loose on a wave and feels better balanced than the ZG series.

For years I paddled an S-8 (like and s-6, but longer). Having a playful boat allowed me to get out to the WW park and practice-practice-practice. S-6 looks like a great boat, I'd recommend it highly!

Finally, the good news about playing lots is that when you get on the river and get tripped up on harder water you'll naturally react with a free-style recovery. For example, you find yourself stern squirted on the eddy line above a drop, no problem! Crash that bow down like a cartwheel and let your buddies think you MEANT to do that.
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Old 05-26-2007   #15
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42
it all depends, man.

Originally Posted by jahmon77 View Post
Alright, I want to get a kayak...I weigh between 158-165, height is 5'7"...I do a lot of rafting and want something to learn on and small enough to take with...I'm interested in a used boat or a great deal....I really like the feel and fit of the project 52...What kayaks are similar to this that I may get a better deal on new or used ??? Same or close fits ??? I'm mainly interested in a playboat both for size and fun...any help would be greatly appreciated...thank you....
I think it's amusing that so many folks are giving advice on what boat you need, but really you didn't give enough information to make that decision for you.

You currently raft...OK: do you raft big water?
If so, then the advice to get a big creeker might not be the best advice. Some of those "crappy" boats described would actually be better in big water than the creek boats which could be pushed around. A boat like the old Pirouette S is a great boat for rivers like the Colorado. Sure, the GT would also be great, maybe better. And the Animas was a big old boy that gets poo pooed, but you know, you can store gear in it...
so do you think you would like to overnight in your boat?
Do you want to creek?
Do you just want to raft and stop and play?
Guys who love to park and play will tell you get a little spud boat and learn there, but personally I like to run rivers, I like to paddle rivers for the same reason I like to mountain bike and ski: I like the changing terrain. I would get bored sitting in the same hole for hours. So you have to think about why you get on the river in the first place and get a boat that complements that drive.

I've paddled a few boats ranging from open canoes, C1s, XXX, Medieval, Y, X, Jive, Gliss, Pirouette, and every boat had it's good and bad sides.

I started in a Pirouette and loved it, then I "outgrew it" and got a smaller play boat only to find that it wasn't enough, I needed more volume for safety so I could run harder water, so I got a Jive, but then I wanted something I could run AND play so I got the Medieval, and before long I had a GREAT QUIVER of boats to choose from.

And you know, there is something to be said about a little thing no one mentioned: safety. Some of the bigger boats are going to be safer, but I've been told by great paddlers that some creek boats make really hard water fairly easy, and mediocre paddlers can get themselves in over their heads 'cause the boat gave them an artificially high estimation of their skills.
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Old 06-13-2007   #16
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 95
I hear that level of safety thing in a creek boat, but only to a degree...My creek boat made a lot of things easier than, say, a playboat but that didn't mean I lacked in skills. Actually, I just bought my first true spud, an S6F 193, and have been truly struggling to find a solid roll in it after never missing one for years in my creeker. I can back deck it fine, but I can't buy a standard C to C or sweep to save my life!

That said, I'm more scared to run my spud in class III on clear creek, but my creeker I feel solid in up to class V when 600 CFS or under.

Many beasts, many games we play!

The craziest thing I've seen, though, is amazing boaters in the south running class IV and V creeks in spuds! Talk about versatility!
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Old 06-13-2007   #17
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 22
I have an ACE 4.7 for sale on the swap. It was a wonderful boat to me and I'll sell it to you for a wonderful price.
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Old 06-13-2007   #18
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
if you live at a river with lots of play

if you live at a river with lots of play than you will deffenetely want that project you liked if you want something more stable less manuverable get a creeker

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