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Old 07-10-2009   #11
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by Kendi View Post
However, I have noticed that I have gotten glares from kayakers who are surfing who don't want to move out of the way for my raft. As a rafter going downstream, I usually have only one chance to hit something whereas a kayaker can stay and play for hours if they choose. Also, IMHO, kayakers are a bit more manuverable than a bit fat raft, so- it would be nice if a kayaker who saw a raft coming for them, to politely move out of the way for the 23 seconds it takes me to go on by.

I don't have any animosity towards kayakers, but there are times when going down the river I'm thinkin' "really? - couldn't you wait a few seconds for me to get a good hit and then go back to surfin or whatever".

Kayakers- if I'm off in my observations, please feel free to enlighten me.

Well, if there is a collision between a kayak and a raft I think we all know who is going to win. If they're that uptight, they should be fishermen.*

*Just kidding Travis!

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Old 07-10-2009   #12
V for Victory
9300ft, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 329
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I've never had a problem with a rafter nor a fisherman.

Rafters have collected yardsales and given me rides and beta.

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Old 07-10-2009   #13
travelling, around
Paddling Since: 83
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 60
rafts vs yaks

This Alaskan Creek is popular with kayakers with money to fly-in and lots of water.

At low water, rafters hike in and run it for free .

It's a great run in either craft.:
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Old 07-10-2009   #14
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Portland, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 188
I started out in kayaks and never ran anything with a rafter. Different gear, different lines etc. Then I discovered almost every rafter had a cooler of beer and turkey legs.

I bought a raft this year.
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Old 07-10-2009   #15
Silt, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 75
Being primarily a rafter but also a kayaker I have no problem with either. However, I have come extremely close to running over and knocking out surfers. The Glenwood wave has attracked them by the hundreds! Many yet seem to realize that I will run your ass over if you are in my line. With that said, I would love to try surfing on the river.
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Old 07-10-2009   #16
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Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 966
Now, if you want to talk about kayakers and tubers.....
I have no problem with the tubers...yes, i cringe when I see the ones that have no pfd, or protective gear, getting worked in a hole...oh, and did I mention not knowing how to swim??? However, I have witnessed some ridiculous behavior on some kayaker's behalf when it comes to the particular, this one guy in Golden that kept yelling, "Wait, there's more trash coming down" every time a tuber appeared!
I was actually a little embarrassed for this guy and his miserable attitude!
"You know that old trees just grow stronger and old rivers grow wilder, everyday..."
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Old 07-10-2009   #17
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conifer, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 937
I'll summarize it by saying this; rafters haul their bitches, turkey legs and schlitz on overnighters, kayakers have a circle jerk with whiskey and eat oatmeal for breakfast...nuf said join the crew.
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Old 07-11-2009   #18
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,909
turkey legs and schlitz on overnighters
No, no, no you've got it wrong - let's try four course dinners and Guinness with fresh-baked brownies for dessert.
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 07-11-2009   #19
Bend, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 141
I think kayakers tend (many exceptions) to spend more days on the water because there is more accessible to us and it is less of a process to prep the gear. This also leads to a more diverse skill set (I would consider myself an 'expert' rafter too so I feel I can make this judgement). Unfortunately, this can also lead to a sense of superiority but it seems rare that it then leads to animosity. We're all friends on the river and there for the same reason. I do get frustrated if I'm having a great surf and see a raft approaching but watching the faces of the people getting that one good hit is enough to make it worth sliding over. We as humans are exceptionally good at finding and exploiting differences amongst ourselves so its easy to do between kayakers/rafters, westerners/easterners, locals/tourists, black/white, whatever you choose if you're so inclined.
Vaya Con Rios!

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Old 07-11-2009   #20
Thronton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 665
Originally Posted by Kendi View Post
...I don't have any animosity towards kayakers, but there are times when going down the river I'm thinkin' "really? - couldn't you wait a few seconds for me to get a good hit and then go back to surfin or whatever"....
I'm also a rafter, never even tried kayaking. My goal is to stay upright and dry, which seems to be contrary to kayaking! The only thing I see between the two groups mentioned is that they may be different breeds of the same animal. We all love the river, we just spend our time differently on it.

Anyway, I don't think it matters whther its a rafter, kayaker, fisherman or tuber. Like someone else said, there are good people and jerks in all of those groups. I was on the Eagle a few weeks ago, and a guy pulled out onto the river right in front of me as I headed into Trestle. We ended up going under the bridge and into the rapid side by side, and I couldn't use my left oar (should have used it in the middle of his chest I guess). My point being, the guy should have moved earlier or waited for my to go by so we BOTH would have had more room to run it.

I've also seen rafters and kayakers alike eddy out, slow down, speed up, etc to give each other room on the river. No animosity, just common courtesy. Everyone waves to each other, says hello, etc. I see people in all crafts helping each other carry boats to and from the river, load trailers, etc. The same could happen between a kayaker and a raft. Or a tuber and a kayak. Etc.

In my experience, I would say that there is far less animosity or negative experiences than there is a common love for the sport and positive experiences. Like a car wreck on the highway or other bad things in our society, maybe it's just that the bad experiences stand out more?

Anyway, I hope whatever animosity you sense is the exception, not the rule...

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