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Old 03-01-2007   #31
Charc in = charc out
ToddG's Avatar
Seattle, Washington
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Posts: 475
respect yer elders, kid

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Old 03-01-2007   #32
the fort, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 672
can't we all just get along? group hug? something? shit. no reason to get personal here. if leif says there's enough gradient/EGL to make it work, i believe him. he's done just a little bit of modeling in the last few years. besides if the park didn't turn out to be the best park in the US but still turned out to be pretty good, does that mean you won't surf it?

the word is that the Corps will approve the EIS for Glade and NISP as it was submitted, so that makes the Glade project a virtual certainty, which as leif says will really hurt the flows through town. if the permit is approved, you can count on the project being built UNLESS some of the municipalities/districts back out and make it more costly for the remaining entities to make the project happen. that's where the focus should now shift to.

By the waterside I will lay my head.
Listen to the river sing sweet songs to rock my soul.
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Old 03-01-2007   #33
Da Fort, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 42
Just thought I'd put some numbers on the flow issue for everybody.
I just ran the flow duration curve for the Poudre at the Fort Collins gauge using data from 1975 to the present.

Flow(cfs) Exceedence % Days/yr
27 50 183
88 30 109
154 20 73
516 10 37
1373 5 18

As an example, from this hisorical data we can expect flows greater than 516cfs 10% of the time, which means about 37 days/year. This would obviously change with Glade Res. coming online. Whoever designs this will surely look at this and hopefully make sure that the structures are effective (fun) at lower flows. You just have to work with what you've got.

And Kakahead, Force is spot on about the raise in water surface elevations. FEMA only cares about the 100-yr flood WSE. The structures can increase head (stage) at lower flows as long as they don't affect the 100-yr floodplain.

As far as the big issue, the time and money will be spent to get this done, so we'll just have to make the best of what we have, and thank all those who've donated either. [/img]
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Old 03-01-2007   #34
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Bham, Washington
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 463
Okay here goes, I'll try and clean up my tone up a little.

Since the project is now public it, the design and construction has to put forth to the public. The RFP states that the designer must have at completed at least 3 prior projects. That means basically Lacy, the McLoughin group (in Denver), and Turner are qualifed to put forward a bid to do the design work. I posted a partial RFP on Boatertalk, MtnBuzz, and Boof.com to try and get anyone qualified to put in a bid. I believe the deadline for the RFP is still open so if anyone would recomend a specific designer tell them to submit a bid ASAP. Lacy and the McLoughin group were contacted specifically and will probably be submitting an bid.

Back to the park specifically, is this going to be the best feature in the states? are people going to drive across the country to surf the park? hardly and i hope not. Are the chosen designers going to do the best they can to make a kick ass park? Yes, and thats all we can ask and I have faith that they will do the best with what they have to deal with. However, the design of WW park is a very inexact science at best so quality of the end is not guaranteed. Is the site perfect? no. Will it provide a better option/play that BTO? most likely. Will it be the M-wave? no. Will glade effect things? Yes, and the design of the park will need to consider that meaning it will probably be designed for lower flows.

Most importantly, will it be worth it? YES, and it is worth "bothering with". It will provide a great resource to the town and local boaters when you don't have time to head up the canyon, want teach some to roll/boat in a controlled setting, and probably for a week or two out of the year have some kick ass play sessions.

Peace out...
The high side of good - Daniel D
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Old 03-01-2007   #35
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Indian Hills, Colorado
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"Proposed Trees"
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Old 03-01-2007   #36
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the fort, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 140
who cares about all this stupid engineering shit, this park will be sick
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Old 03-01-2007   #37
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Summit, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
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"this stupid engineering shit" is the difference between Salida and Pumphouse. Have some respect.

"The world would be a better place if everyone kayaked."-Brad Ludden (Valhalla)
"You only get one chance to run a drop blind."-DD
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Old 03-02-2007   #38
Loveland, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 510
Only in that the NISP EIS is not yet done. You should still be able to comment. Even if the initial public scoping comment period is over, there is strong likelihood the CORPS is continuing to accept public comment. It helps them better define and refine their studies.
Kara Lamb
Public Information
Eastern Colorado Office
Bureau of Reclamation
(970) 962-4326
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Old 03-05-2007   #39
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2
Get over yourselves

Ok, I live in whitewater hell, Wisconsin. I am starting a research project, undergraduate, to create a whitewater feature in a whitewater park 150 miles from my house. "the nearest whitewater of any kind"

You fools are bitching and moaning about this stupid little project 5 minutes from your spoiled asses house.

Stop getting worked up about BS and go do something. You are from Colorado, you are spoiled, and it's going to your head!

I just got done calibrating a flume, slope, flow, mannings N, etcetera, and building a simple scale model to beggin my modeling, and got online to see this and it is really discouraging when people in paradise can find crap like this to bitch about.

And as far as yer CSU project, sorry your friends hate it, do independant study and your life will be easy. I hate people who have a great life and find reasons to bitch about it.

I'm not ussually this agro, but it's been a long day.
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Old 03-06-2007   #40
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steamboat springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 93
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 199

i would hardly call wisconsin "whitewater hell"


you've got more whitewater there than a lot of states can say they have. now if you lived in florida, mississippi, or louisiana, i think you would be onto something.

and for your info, a lot of colorado is a long way from whitewater. depending on where you live, and also depending on the time of year, you can't find whitewater within several hundred miles.

there are a lot of boaters here who live in the mountains. we are jonesing all winter long. the only place that we can go for some whitewater that isn't frozen in the form of snow is down to the front range, or on a long road trip to some other warmer climate.

so we sit around and talk on mountainbuzz, and people get on each others nerves. people are all entitled to their own opinions. sometimes those opinions rub other people the wrong way. then people start arguing with each other. that is just the way it goes with internet forums.

just wait untill you try to get your project up and rolling. there will be all kinds of hoops to jump through. and people will probably point out some kind of problems. then you will probably get defensive since you have invested so much time and energy. these guys aren't arguing for the fun of it. they are trying to point out and work out any potential problems before they become actual problems.

i know some people are getting a little bit emotional here, but everyone just wants a play park that will be worth the time and energy invested in building it. everyone's ideas are important. even if it looks like it is just arguing fioor the sake of arguing.

this is how these things get done. there will be arguments about a project like this until the day it is completed. someone wil have to argue with the city council and point out all the benefits, while the opposition who wants the river left alone argues the other side and tries to show the problems. then someone will have to argue for water rights in the water court, while someone else will argue against issueing the water right.

if we have seen all the arguments for and against a project before it gets to the city council, or before it gets into the water court, then at least we know what to expect when it gets to that point. so don't tell people not to argue. people are just throwing out all the possibilities, and that can't be a bad thing.

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