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Old 06-01-2008   #11
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by BrownTrout View Post
What I meant about non-usual is that when looking at the location of accidents on the Gunnison this place does have any accidents in the past. Most of the carnage occurs around the water park. I am interested to see if officials will close the water park. When you think about it if you mess up at high water around the water park, where are you gonna recover? Private property???
I have personally done rescue/recovery on the stretch below McCabes. Yeti is right about sharp bends and wood.

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Old 06-01-2008   #12
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
Very Tragic. Condolences to the family. That being said we should change BrownTrout to FinlessBrownSewerTrout. More Laws More Laws. If you don't look both ways they should throw you in jail. Dog off a leash, ten years at least. Don't be such a turd, let people take responsibility for themselves. Proper education is the answer, not laws and more laws. LAME

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Old 06-01-2008   #13
Fort Collins, CO Summer Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 42
Irresponsible boaters ruin it for the rest

I agree, I like to ride my motorcycle without a helmet, fuck it, let the rescue team scrape my ass off the pavement. I also enjoy boating on water without a helmet or lifejacket, search and rescue is payed by our taxes right, they can save me. So personal responsibility and education is the answer huhn? Why are people still dying? People have know what a life jacket is for a while now. Why is there a law making sure there are enough life jackets on the boat? That must be bullshit to you too Billy D? I feel a law on the books would open peoples eye's and be education in itself. Remember Billy D, people also used to think driving drunk was a personal freedom too.
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Old 06-01-2008   #14
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Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 93
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 844
Darwin's Natural Selection at work

Natural selection at work here. Also on the Poudre with the tuber sans life jacket. Not meaning any disrespect to any of the families, as it is a tragic loss that could have been easily prevented.

I started wearing a ski helmet in 95 because I realized the need for it back then. Since my kids need to wear a life jacket all the time, so do I just to keep the playing field level. I like to lead by example and if they see me wear one all the time, they will just feel it is the way to go about boat safety.

I wear my motorcycle helmet 98% of the time. But I do just jump on and buzz over to the hardware store or super market near by, sans helmet. We do not need more laws, education usually works, but I find it hard to believe a doctor would not know he should wear a life jacket on a spring runoff river. He made the wrong decision and unfortunately, he paid for it with his life.
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Old 06-02-2008   #15
no tengo
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Baytopia, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1876
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,768
an update. apparently they (investigators) are not saying yet if the victim was wearing a pfd and the paper is reporting that.

a lot of you have not worn a pfd in class II so don't go pointing too many fingers but do start wearing one even on ruby h. sad but possibly preventable it seems.
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Old 06-02-2008   #16
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 85
You really think people thought drunk driving was a personal freedom?? Personal freedom and endangering the lives of others are two totally different things. Thus drunk driving laws. Search and rescue, not sure, but I believe is mostly funded by donations. At least it some of both. And you don't need to wear a helmet in Colorado. Its eye protection, so go for it.
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Old 06-02-2008   #17
Boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2
Delta to Whitewater?

I have never floated this section of the Gunny where this happened but I have floated Delta to Whitewater. I have a 3 year old and we did it last summer, it was flat but great for a family float. We are planning to go again this weekend with friends but this tragedy raises possible concerns.

Can ayone help me with a few questions?

1. What kind of boat was he in? Was this a full size raft (we would be in our 14 SB) or a little Walmart boat or something like that? I have no idea what that stretch is like or if people treat it like Boulder Creek (tubes, tiny rafts, no experience and no PFD's or helmets).
2. How does this stretch compare to the Delta - Whitewater stretch? When we ran the lower section last year I could not imagine a place where a full size raft with an average oarsman could flip but obviously high water changes everything.

I am a competent 3/4 rafter but not a professional guide and I have no desire to scare my children, we want these trips to be confidence building. Thanks for any info you can provide.
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Old 06-02-2008   #18
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by BrownTrout View Post
I feel a law on the books would open peoples eye's and be education in itself.
You can't legislate common sense. This is definitely natural selection at work. And I don't know why (or if) there is a law requiring a boat to contain enough PFD's for all passangers, but it is as equally ridiculous as a law requiring you to wear a PFD, or a seat belt or helmet. Do you really think that requiring people to wear a PFD will reduce the number of preventable accidents out there?? Dumb asses still tool around without seat belts, without helmets, and without lifejackets, and they pay the consequences. Why should I have to deal with more Johnny Law barking up my tree b/c John Q Retard is retarded. Just let people live their lives and stop trying to save them...If they want to be stupid, maybe they shouldn't be saved
Chris Morrison
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Old 06-02-2008   #19
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Thought-criminal, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 989
Werd. Anyone who advocates putting more laws on the books in this already ridiculously over regulated society deserves a kick sqare in the balls.

I think using the phrase "natural selection at work" in this context might be a little harsh, though. It seams like this guy thought he was in for (what is normally) a mellow float. Would I have a pfd on? Maybe. I live in the Gspot and know that the river is ready to tip it's banks and moving fast on every stretch. Maybe he didn't. But we're not talking about a dude who welded jet booster engines onto his car and drove/flew into a cliff or rested his hands on the rim of an industrial glue barrel to enjoy the fumes only to pass out and fall down, hands glued to the barrel, thus pulling the barrel down onto him and gluing himself to the floor to expire from hypoxia (both Darwin award winners). Let's give this guy the benefit of the doubt.
I hope in the future Americans are thought of as a warlike, vicious people, because I bet a lot of high schools would pick "Americans" as their mascot. -Jack Handy
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Old 06-02-2008   #20
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 68
First- common sense isn't common.

Second- unless there was another incident this weekend, this guy went to church with my boss. Any remarks about alcohol or any other wrong doing can be taken back. As my boss is pretty hurt by it, and told me about the guy, well needless to say he was a man of God. He might have made an error in judgement but by no means was he being reckless. I don't know details, was just told about how he lived his life (the only really important thing there is to know).

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