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Old 12-03-2012   #21
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Originally Posted by eljim View Post
77 ft Turner Falls on Honey Creek in Turner Falls, OK. I heard some hippie dropped it into a pile sheriff deputies 2008ish, I hope that was true. Weird OK has the same WV, and MT high water mark law.

Thats where I first ice climbed. That was illegal too.... Still climbed all night and had the place to ourselves.

Maybe a moonlight huck fest is in order next time I'm down that way... Does it ever have enough water to really run it. Or do you just slide down the travertine?

Cool to see thanks for posting.

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Old 12-03-2012   #22
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[QUOTE=peterholcombe;298081]Does it ever have enough water to really run it.



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Old 12-04-2012   #23
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"Don't f$&@ing eddy out, just run it! Whaddya doin??" -LMyers
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Old 12-04-2012   #24
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[QUOTE=Paddle_like_Hell;298091][QUOTE=peterholcombe;298081]Does it ever have enough water to really run it.


Cool to see. Thanks!
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Old 12-04-2012   #25
Salt Lake City, Utah
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As a newbie to river rights, I understand that all navigatable rivers are legal to float. As long as one stays below the average water line, then its not trespassing? What about trips like the Grand Canyon? If Congress deems that all navigatable rivers are legal to travel, then how can the NPS say "no" to my permit application each and every year? According to Congress, I can put my boat in the water and float down as long as I "put in" "take out" and stay off land that is private. What about poaching the Grand and sleeping on the boat, would this be legal?

Weird questions and statements to cure a little early winter boredom.

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Old 12-05-2012   #26
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At the risk of oversimplifying this - the answer to your question is no. There are 4 navigability standards which each have different consequences. You are referring to navigability for title purposes. If a river is navigable for title - which means, more or less, that the river could have supported commerce about a hundred years ago - then the land up to the normal high water line is held in the public trust. So, even if you own the land on each side of the river, title to the river bed is owned in public trust by people of the United States collectively. (This standard is not really clear, and there are weird applications of it all over. Apparently, there are no navigable waters in the entire state of Colorado under this test.)

BUT... just because you are part of the group that owns the land doesn't mean you can do whatever you want on it. Think of it like public lands - forest service, BLM, national parks etc. Each are technically owned by the people of the US, but just because you are a citizen doesn't mean you have free reign to do whatever you want in forrest service land. The government decides the best use of the land and imposes the rules that everyone must follow. So just as the government can decide whether or not you can use a dirt bike on a forest service trail, they can also decide to implement river permits for the preservation of certain rivers.

The navigability rules only stop a private land owner from claiming trespass, they don't stop the Gov't from regulating the river in anyway they want.

That said, I'm not sure if anyone has ever tried this argument. So you can try to convince a judge to listen to you - it might work. Crazier legal decisions happen all the time. Also a lot of permitted/illegal rivers get poached every year. Remember, you only have to make the argument if you get caught.
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Old 12-05-2012   #27
Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Originally Posted by tango View Post
i wasn't thinking so much about private property complications... those situations can be dealt with, or depending on one's willingness to test the law, ignored.

what rivers are forbidden? either institutionally like yellowstone, or because the river is sacred, in the same sense that mount kailash cannot be climbed.

tribal lands come to mind, for example, cibecue creek in AZ.
Agree that Cibecue Ck would be off limits, but it generally doesn't have boatable flows most of the time so who cares. The Upper Salt is another matter though.....

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