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Old 02-13-2007   #31
Broomfield, Colorado Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Charlotte Whitewater

Charlotte was a mere ~35 million to build.
Chump Change!

I think we would be well off by extending Confluence, adding lights and adjustable features to accommodate flows and different groups.

Charlotte has a lot of headaches and is organizationally challenged, we do and would not have these issues. I would rather just have good and enough rather than the "biggest and best" (comes with too many problems .. politically and socially).
n the end, I think we need to look at if we build and refine within our true capabilities here in the outdoors capital of the world something that is always able to run, minimal upkeep and always accommodating, then we have the best.
Charlotte has been "broken" for two months now since the new year. So ... 35 mill.... is it worth the headache of all the downtime.

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Old 02-13-2007   #32
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Technology Partner, Littleton, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Denver Water Gods are a huge unsolvable issue

and so are the water rights owning Nebraska farmers. it would be nice to have a consistant 800 cfs to 1500 cfs flow

And the Lord said, let there be whitewater. So on Friday, the 13th day of the month....
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Old 02-13-2007   #33
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Lakewood, Colorasta
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 843
Is confluence really the best place for gates?

I guess this is why I rarely park and paddle. . .
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Old 02-13-2007   #34
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3

Hi PhillyBoop, nice to talk with you on Saturday at the Scene 1. I would have talked more but my English is poor. Is there any chance to get a picture you shot?

And also I am a cause of Scene 2.
I carefully put these gates in place to train slalom and people to enjoy watching slalom kayaking in winter. I hung a PVC pole on the side cable to prevent bothering playboaters and the cleaning up the course since I realized my cheep gates were easy to be blown to the river center in windy winter. And also I checked the gates and wire once a week at least for safety. My fault is that I didn't ask other slalom racers to hang a PVC pole on the side cable after they finish training. I didn't know playboaters can cartwheel at the right side of 2nd drop at winter water level. The pvc obstruct you, if you try it.

In conclusion, I am shocked at the news of that the gates were destroyed by kayakers. I am friendly and nice to any boaters. I will not replace gates anymore so that I'm a poor foreign student. If Kendo want me to remove wire and gates, I will do it.

PS. I'm bad at English. Please, read that in a friendly way.
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Old 02-13-2007   #35
Broomfield, Colorado Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Denver...Confluence is Good

Yes Confluence is a great place for the gates for several reasons...

1. Ability to be in the face of spectators and promote our sport (super important for growth)
2. Ability to simulate artificial courses all over the world (Olympic Development)for competition on swirly and tight maneuvers.
3. Reliable flows (generally can train and utilize all of the year)
4. Safety awareness. The course allows us to promote safe using of our waterways and promoting environmental awareness
5. By being in the eyes of City lawmakers and environmental folks, we can insist that the City and State act quicker for river cleaning methods.
6. Supporting one of the very first artificial courses in the world and certainly the US by bringing it up to date for stream flow improvements.

I travel to more than 16 countries with whitewater facilities and all over the US taking people to train and race and despise having to go to other places to do this.
So many people have no idea what paddle sport can offer and feel that being in the main stream vision it will grow and positively improve others lives. You know that feeling you... WE.. all get when surfing even an insignificant glassy wave and just carving back and fourth not needing to do anything else. All the shit in our minds just disappear and life is good.
Now imagine being blind or deaf or someone that has not been able to see happiness in their life due to loss or being beaten all their life and this is their first feeling of a river once learning to roll. Can it get better ?

I want to see this happen more regularly!

Confluence s the place to make this happen with Golden only being accessible so little time each year.

I also would like to see what we can do to redevelop the drops down stream and the flat water gates down at 20th street that we put up.

I know we can make it work and work for everyone.

Sure the natural wild or scenic river is great ... but so often not running in our region or too cold or too hard to access for some. I love natural river runs, but I want to call Confluence and Golden my home.
Not China or Germany or anywhere else USA!
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Old 02-13-2007   #36
Broomfield, Colorado Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Masatoshi.. Leave them be for now.....

You and I spoke last week about the gates and they are not honestly in the way of play boaters when off to the side.
I am working to use this structure to show to the city of an example of improvements needed. If you recall I had an extensive set of these gates up two years ago with 18 gates and they were taken down.
It is very frustrating seeing this happen. It is usually fisherman that tear them down, but we can all work through this.

I know that Kendo will make it possible in his heart to let this go and be aware of it before "looping" the eddy line.

I know I was down there again yesterday to check out what happened and had been sure that no wires lay in the current.

It's all good and we will ALL learn how to work together.... RIGHT?
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Old 02-13-2007   #37
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Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 155
Blood sweat and Tears

Masa and frpa, and positive input!
Just wanted to add I appreciate your input and really am glad we all have crossed this path, sometimes finding a solution to a problem has to take place via impact.. am glad we have had room to discuss this. I make no excuses for the conversation, that had taken place, I am human , kayakers are no better or worse than anyone, we dont sit on a pedestool. I do look foward to a course that draws more boaters to it, it helps us all. I have had a chance to converse with Phillyboop via the buzz, I believe we are on the right path. Don , thanks again and thanks again to all who have shown that they care.
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Old 02-13-2007   #38
Denver (Philly Native), Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 146
I exchanged PMs with Kendo, and yes we "all can get along". I didn't mean to start a shit storm, but we are addressing a concern and finding a good path to resolution for all.

Kendo brought up a good point about river clean up. Of all the areas we boat, the most challenging is the Platte. If anyone is organizing anything let me know, I am in and will bring the trash bags and beer or buy the first round at the North Star. Shoot me a PM.

"When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro" -HST
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Old 02-13-2007   #39
gunnison, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 390
Pulling down slalom gates makes no sense. Slalom gates can get tagged, they get tagged by slalom boaters constantly, they can take some abuse and nobody get hung up on em. Splat the stupid gates, whatever, do splitwheels around em, call it a new trick, tape it and register it on playak, you might get a blurb in a magazine for it. Oh, I said stupid gates. I love slaloming. Were these gates really a hazard? If they were, someone should get prosecuted. Slalom boaters are probably never dumb enough to place actual hazards in the river. Whatever.
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Old 02-13-2007   #40
Broomfield, Colorado Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 61
Thanks to Kendo for Coming Clean.....

Sure we could continue throwing flames and other shit, but the problem does not go away.
I received a call from Ken AKA Kendo who stated his apologies and clearly understood what our intentions are.
It takes a real person to confront "face to face" as he did and I admire that. Sure I am pissed for his actions, but what can we do other than better understand what each of the sides is and move on.

I think from this range of posts alone with 1500 views we have gotten some attention.

Slalom and Freestyle people get along... who ... what.... Sure we will.
One day, very soon, we will share stories on the bank as Kendo and his buddies all help us strign the course correctly and then we all play the river together.
It will happen.... no hard feelings anyone... specifically when air is cleared and everyone is on the same page.
It is all about communication and sharing a passion. We can all do this.
Thanks to everyones feedback, moral support and criticisms. This is what this forum is about, coming to an understanding through many point mediation and in the end.. Happy Feet
Cheers... SYOTR


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