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Old 07-04-2007   #21
The next zone, .
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,200
Last year I ordered a WS project in early March. It came in August 18Th!!!! - 3 days after they shut off the water here on the ark! I would have to agree with the don't buy wavesport - right now they are just not gettin it done.

With what I have heard about WS they - at the corporate levels are screwing up big.

Also a couple of years ago I cracked a pyrahna m3 - after 2 years of beating the hell out of it. Pyrahna sent me a total new boat in about a week. Even before they got the pics of the crack. Needless to say when I went lookin for a new creek boat the Burn was the only boat I was lookin at.

I guess confluence is doing it's best to make sure that Jackson, Pyrahna, and liquid logic sell a bunch of boats this year.

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Old 07-04-2007   #22
Evergreen, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 316
On the Jackson note... Unless my memory is totally off or things have drastically changed..... Jackson boats are effectively mass produced. The hull is manufactured in a plastic factory where a variety of other products are produced, including plastic gas tanks. They are then shipped to the "Jackson Kayak" factory to be assembled or outfitted. The good of this is that the manufacturer that they use has great quality control measures in place and can benefit from the knowledge gained from creating a variety of products.

That being said, big is not always bad. Confluence, under new management, and with moving the focus off of the bottom line may be able to turn the corner. And if they can keep their factory employees off of meth then maybe they can make quality boats again. In the end this kind of competition will only help the whole industry.

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Old 07-04-2007   #23
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, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 169
This was the first time I've heard WS and Dagger are "under the same roof". Do they share the same manufacturing facilities? I hate my too has cracked under the cockpit at each of the kiss offs. I bought it from Mountain Miser which is no longer around, so I don't even know where to turn to initiate the process...but I'm sure it's out of warranty anyway. I've come to the conclusion that I will never buy another WS again, but am now questioning whether or not I should ever buy another Dagger again. I have always had good luck with Dagger boats. My old Super Ego was the most comfortable boat I ever paddled. I beat the hell out of it and it never had any problems. I have an old ass Dagger Gradient I'm using as my creek boat right now, and I love it too. Even with a ton of plastic shaved off the bottom from years of abuse, it's taking hits like a champ (even a low water Clear Creek of Ark run). Were these boats built before Confluence had control of the company?

Customer service goes a long way. I've never had problems with a boat defect until my EZG, and this one experience will keep me from ever buying another one of their boats, and also has me questioning a brand I thought I trusted...kind of like a bad experience with a Dodge will keep me from buying a Jeep. When most companies in other industries find out they have been selling a defective product, they recall them. You get it fixed or replaced. Why not this industry? Isn't it a safety issue?

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Old 07-04-2007   #24
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Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 679
What? A corporation putting the bottom line above safety? Say it isn't so...
Send them a message with your wallet, it is all they understand.
"I think I handled my alcohol pretty well considering how drunk I was." -Cousin Dan
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Old 07-04-2007   #25
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Join Date: May 2007
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confluence in denver is the sh!t , you tools are funny . I must say warranty issues are fun , my fat ass cracked the bolt holes three inches up the lip on my pyrahna h-3 255 after 1 month in a train and a season on the show floor and in like six weeks later i was floating " large " if you will . hang in there dude . you should get a boat . f'kin rally with others and group resolve . you could probably do alot better . " Jackson boats are the best boats you can buy " tradmarkedandcopyritenottobusedw/outhepermisionofrickybobbyink.
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Old 07-04-2007   #26
Evergreen, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 316
bobbuilds; "confluence in denver is the sh!t , you tools are funny"

As noted before we are not talking about Confluence Kayaks in Denver. No one would be dumb enough to argue that they dont have the best thing going on the front range.

"Confluence Holdings" in Easley, South Carolina (in no way affiliated with Confluence Kayaks in Denver) owns several brands: Dagger, Perception, Wave Sport, Wilderness Systems, Mad River Canoe, Harmony, Voyager, and AT paddles.

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Old 07-05-2007   #27
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right on , thanks for the clarification i just learned a whole deal of things today . I just wanted to stand up for the guys who got me started and realy make huge efforts to help us . I did learn about confluence holdings and their priorities . we are obviously not one of them . I'm new to the corporate side of kayaking and that it self is an eye opener seriously we should all paddle jacksons though and we could start crying about how good our boat is and how the warrantys are expired and we still haven't cracked it " dam it i wanted it in green " just trying to make light of it . to the guy with the broken boat , hopefully they get you a resolve and if you get stuck with it mabey we could fix it .
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Old 07-09-2007   #28
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 36
Thanks Kevin and the rest of the crew at The Mountain Shop (sad to see it go) and Joel at Wavesport. It took quite a while but I finally got a replacement for my EZG. I am hoping the new blood at Wavesport that Joel posted about can turn the company around, both in quality and customer service.
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Old 07-09-2007   #29
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Newport, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1989
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 206
Power to the posse

Goes to show: enough people bitching about one thing CAN make a difference. capitalism in action.

now lets go after healthcare....
"Paddle silently, boof loudly"
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Old 07-09-2007   #30
Austin, Tejas
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 22
As long as we're on the subject...

I bought a new Project 52 from Pete at Whitewater West here in Grand Junction back in mid May. After my first surf in it on 5th st. wave, I realized it had some subtle but significant warping on the hull. I immediately recruited Pete's help in getting the photos I took of it to the rep., in order to get a replacement. Still have not heard a thing back. This was the second Wavesport I've purchased new, but it might just be the last. Paying full price for a new boat, getting a flawed boat, and being ignored by the company who made it is bullshit!

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