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Old 12-03-2010   #51
The Mogur's Avatar
Oregon City, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1972
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by squeakyboater View Post
Isnt that an entrapment hazard to have the person straped to the front of the boat? In guide school they told us to never have people straped to the boat.
No, no, no. I didn't mean that you'd strap someone on! That would be (as you say) a terrible hazard. What I meant is that you attach grab straps on each side of the passenger seat, so that the passenger has something secure to hang onto. That way, when the big wave blasts over the front, she can more effective shield you. Oh, and also not be blown back into your lap, which might be fun under other circumstances, but probably not in the middle of a Lava run.

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Old 12-03-2010   #52
boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 142
Wow, buddy. Calm down.

I am messing around a bit on this thread, but that does not change the fact that I greatly appreciate the information from people who have been running the grand as long as I have been around. Both about boating and on shore supplies.

I have kayaked the Grand before, however, I was very drunk most of the time and I didn’t scout any of the rapids, so doing it in a raft will be a new experience. And doing big water with a fully loaded boat will be a new also, as on cataract my cat was totally empty and without the wood floor that I will have on the Grand.

Finally, this thread has 5 pages and a ton of views, so obviously someone finds it interesting. So I am not sure whose time I have wasted? Those who enjoy something to look at at work? Those who are giving valuable advice to the many people who have read this thread? Your time that it took you to write your response in defense of those whose time I haven’t wasted?

P.S. My last comment was awesome, Come On!

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Old 12-03-2010   #53
The Mogur's Avatar
Oregon City, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1972
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Originally Posted by CoBoater View Post
Eric don't seem to listen and he sure seems like hes just trolling the buzz and wasting a lot of folks time. he says hes gone to guide school, rowed cat at 55K, the MF at 5.5' and didn't have any trouble with those rivers, and now he sounds like a first-timer getting ready to hit the class 3 and worried about it. If hes done half what he says hes getting lots of advice from people that he don't need and wasting a lot of well meaning peoples time responding to his questions.
Ease up! Anyone who doesn't have some apprehensions about running the Grand Canyon for the first time doesn't have adequate appreciation for the river. "Squeaky's" question was whether a 14-foot cataraft is appropriate for this trip. And the simple answer is yes, as long as he is careful and doesn't try to take the biggest waves head-on.

Now, you kind of imply that the Grand Canyon is a Class 3 run. Where did you get that idea? The rapids in The Canyon are challenging to anyone but braggarts and liars.

As as for wasting people's time, why don't you let us decide for ourselves what's a waste of our time. If we thought that we were talking with only the person who started the thread, we'd use private messaging.

I don't understand why some of you are so quick to flame people who just ask a straightfroward question.
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Old 12-03-2010   #54
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,407
One more tip and I have about run out of stuff.

The water in the GC is cold.

Everyone's ability to handle cold water is different. My guess is I am pretty much average.

I can tell you from personal experience if you take a swim in the GC without proper protective layers (dry suit or farmer john neoprene) and you stay in the water for more than a few minutes - there is a very good chance you will soon be more or less helpless unable to do much to save yourself.

I took my swim on a warm day and the last thing I remember is after a pretty long swim then reaching my cat that did not flip and my plan was to crawl in over the front compartment's rocket boxes. I ended up grabbing the cross bar and went to sleep. My buds had a heck of a time getting me in a raft and in someone's dry fleece outfit. I had on a tee shirt and shorts. Had my dry top and stuff on for Hance, had a good run and celebrated by getting rid of the outer layers. A hole I thought I could bust catapulted me into the drink.

Proving once again, how easy it is to under estimate the GC "riffles". Also proving once again that old tip "dress for the swim water temp, not the air temp"

Have fun on your GC float, but be safe!
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Old 12-03-2010   #55
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,909
OK, I'll waste some more time on this thread...

I've had folks tell me to run a big boat so you can do the big hits. But I ran the GC in a 14er and it was a blast. I was able to sneak all the big rapids and then all the unnamed rapids that barely splashed over the 18' boats were a rockin' time for me. When I got dumptrucked at Mile 89 rapid, I learned real quick to wear the drysuit every day and recommend the same if you're running a small boat - you will get wet one way or another.

Have a good trip!

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 12-03-2010   #56
Denver / Coloma / Monterey, CO / CA
Paddling Since: 1971
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 119

I kinda like this thread, regardless of the amount of trolling. I love the GC, I miss the GC and I can't wait to be there again soon. I am happy to give advice or suggestions to anyone that asks.

Having run it in small rafts, motor rigs and kayaks, not to mention the odd dory, I believe that, if you have a good roll, a kayak is by far the easiest craft to get down the river. I would guess that most folks that call it class III have not done it in a rowing rig more than a few times, especially at different levels. Rapids change with water levels, sometimes drastically. To summarize them all as class III is kind of like saying Pine Creek on the Ark is only III+, if you've only run Pine Creek at 600cfs. Horn Creek at 3000 is an entirely different animal than Horn Creek at 20,000.

On a lighter note, there are a couple of old saying's that I really like:

There are only two kinds of Grand Canyon guides: Those that have flipped and those that are going to.

You're always above Lava.

Considering all the sad/bad shit that happens to people all over the world every day, I feel very, very lucky to have been down the Big Ditch. Hope ya'll do to. If we're lucky we'll get to go again. See ya' down there.

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Old 12-04-2010   #57
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Overseas, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 135
Shocks... pegs... lucky!

Have fun, a little bit of me hates you a whole lot. Some of this thread smells like "I can't drive 55". We had flips in House Rock, and Upset. They deserved it. When in doubt point and pull. Left in Bedrock is cool in a kayak. Ivan surfed the left ledge hole in Lava on purpose, I would of look a lot cooler if I didn't kayak with him. I rowed my buddies 16 ft cat 4 days HEADWINDS SUCK! Hike the most.
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Old 12-06-2010   #58
craig, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 13
Dude with all this schoolin your going to flip for sure......yeehaa
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Old 12-06-2010   #59
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In this bullshit three-ring circus sideshow of freaks, Arkansas
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 194
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Originally Posted by The Mogur View Post
I don't understand why some of you are so quick to flame people who just ask a straightfroward question.
Probablly b/c there's no paddling to be had for many folks... If there's anything I've learned from following several paddling message boards, its that when paddlers aren't busy picking which run their off to paddle, they often end up picking on each other for entertainment instead... Right or wrong, it is the nature of internet life this time of year
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Old 12-06-2010   #60
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Grand Junction, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
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Yeah, really, what's the harm in a little discussion?

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