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Old 10-31-2006   #11
Tiggy

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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 86
Stop back paddling. Use stern strokes, like draws and prys (paddle blade behind you). This will keep your boat from stalling out. If you notice, you take a forward stroke to turn and give yourself momentum then you back paddle (reverse sweep even) to turn, and the boat stalls.
Im a C boater and if I started back paddling like that Im done, lol.
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Old 10-31-2006   #12
mjpowhound

Profile:  Lakewood, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 152
Images: 2
Thanks for the replies. I anticipated the backstroke thing and have been trying not to do that so much. Is that something you can work on in the pool? Boat is an '06 4Fun. Some days the backband feels great and other days not so much. I'll have to try playing with the seat a little and getting further forward.

thanks again!

josh
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Old 11-01-2006   #13
Trout_Bobber
Banned

Profile:  Georgia Moonshine
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 173
You ran the main drop very well. On the approach you did seem to hesitate, now those may have been correcting strokes, but you should always be paddling forward when correcting. You stalled your forward momentum with a few back strokes and had to brace on that first little drop, when you braced you leaned back. If you had flipped when your back right edge caught in the little hole there, you would have found yourself upside down and on your back deck in what looks like shallow water: Not good.

I am not familiar with the river you were on, but here in the SE, many rivers are shallow and you can find yourself being dragged along under your boat on your back deck Not Good!!

Lean forward, pull yourself thru the drops: Less chance you will flip and even if you do flip, you are in a better position to tuck up tight and nail that roll.
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Old 11-01-2006   #14
gh

Profile:  Colo Spgs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I guess my opinion differs somewhat. I dont see a problem with the brake strokes as you approach the hole or at that level the chute at sunshine cause it speeds you up quite a bit and you need to avoid the big rock on the right side. So I would say ok to brake stroke before you get to a feature, not ok during. You do seem to be back in the boat a bit or leaning back, fix that. I would also say on those smaller drops above just reach through with a good vertical paddle stroke and that will make you lean forward and stop the squirting effect.
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Old 11-01-2006   #15
BobN

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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 19
Overall, very good for your first year

As others have said try moving the seat forward a little to help with the stern squirting effect. In the Fun series, your knee caps should be right up as far forward the can go in the knee bump area.

The thing I noticed, which is actually very typical for many paddlers, is that your strokes were really all arms and there appeared to be little involvement of the torso. Good torso rotation in all your strokes will provide much more power per stroke and will help you keep a good forward posture giving you better boat control. there are couple of ways you can work on this. The first is to try to paddle without change the angle of your elbows. Try to keep both elbows at about a 30 degree angle and practice forward paddling without letting this angle change. The only way you will be able to paddle is by rotating your shoulders and torso. (note: this isn't necessarily the way to ultimately paddle but just a good drill to get the feeling of torso and shoulder rotation.) Another thing you can do is pretend like you're a c1'er and keep your top arm fairly stiff and extended and your other elbow at about a 90 degreee angle and use your shoulders and torso to move the paddle through the water. try to take several strokes on the same side this way, it will really help with getting a good vertical paddle stroke as well.

Otherwise Looking good,
BobN
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Old 11-01-2006   #16
JCKeck1

Profile:  Kayaker, Raft Guide, Ski Patrol, Nurse, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Looks to me that your anticipation of the first drop was late. You might have needed an upstream ferry angle even. When you hit the pillow, lean into it more and you wont have to brace. Knowing how much to lean is a thing of practice, but generally more is better than less. I agree that you could move the seat foward a bit, but those stern squirts didn't look too bad to me. Better a little stern squirt than a bow stall. Your posture looked good to me. You looked strong coming through the second half. If you want to get better, learn to catch the river right eddy at the main hole so you can watch your friends surf it. I agree about your torso rotation. Doing well for one year.
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Old 11-02-2006   #17
Cutch

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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 724
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The first is to try to paddle without change the angle of your elbows. Try to keep both elbows at about a 30 degree angle and practice forward paddling without letting this angle change. The only way you will be able to paddle is by rotating your shoulders and torso. (note: this isn't necessarily the way to ultimately paddle but just a good drill to get the feeling of torso and shoulder rotation.)
An excellent tip. But, I actually prefer to paddle in this 30-degree elbow-bend position all of the time. In addition to forcing torso rotation, I find that it has two major benefits.

First, it gets the paddle as far out from the chest as possible, which creates more room to react to unstable water. A paddler that keeps his paddle close to his chest tends to get tied up in knots—which quickly leads to rolling, and other carnage.

Secondly, it creates the affect of reaching forward which in-turn puts the paddlers torso in an aggresive forward leaning position, which is also the most stable, elimating most rolls.

I take it one step further too. Something that Erica Mitchell taught me years ago (she's a former world champ in freestyle) is to lock my elbows and paddle across a lake. Then, gradually let them bend to a very extended position, at around 30 degrees. Eventually the flatwater stroke work pays off, and that position begins to feel very natural.

Then, while paddling down the river that way, learn to turn using only dufek, draw, and skulling strokes, since those paddle positions keep your body in a centered and aggresive position, better than a traditional sweep. Just my opinion.

out.
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Old 11-02-2006   #18
jeffy

Profile:  Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 190
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This is by far the most useful boating post in a long time. What a great community.

Jeff
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Old 11-03-2006   #19
N. Wigston

Profile:  legend
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 322
Images: 13
Don't beat yourself up. You look pretty good for a first year boater. I've taught a lot of people to kayak and I would say you are on the right track.

One thing i noticed: You paddle a lot inbetween the drops, but when you actually get to the drop you stop. It should be somewhat opposite. When inbetween drops, use correctional strokes to line up, then take a power stroke to charge through the holes.

The proper technique will come as you gain more confidence. Think more about your strategy for running rapids rather than your stroke technique. It's more about stroke placement and timing. If you can master that your technique will get better with more experience.

That's not to say you shouln't practice good technique. Watch videos with people like Tao, Tommy Hilleke, Steve Fischer, Clay Wright, etc, etc. When I watch a video, I'm not just watching the waterfalls, I'm watching them paddle. Then I try to think about how I can make myself paddle like them.

Try to find really good boaters to paddle with, so you can watch them first hand.
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Old 11-05-2006   #20
Cutch

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When I watch a video, I'm not just watching the waterfalls, I'm watching them paddle. Then I try to think about how I can make myself paddle like them.
Seven Rivers. Amazing clips that show the technique. Most videos cut the shots to just the freefall or the freestyle trick, but that movie has a lot of good scenes that show a paddler lining up, and setting up for different stroke timing for different types of boofs. Hillike is a perfect example, but Nikki Kelley is sometimes better to watch. She doesn't have the strength of the guys, so to make up for that her timing is nearly flawless.
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