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Old 03-30-2010   #471
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Gunnison, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1970
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 86
I'm sure it will be one of the higher off year turn outs. Colorado needs to throw out the crooked big government liberals that have sold off our state, our country and our children's future to indebtedness to China and others. We conservative patriotic Americans (or tea baggers as fagfaser calls true Americans) who support the constitution and small government also believe in the right to float. I am a private land owner who lives on the water and I support the right to float. Colorado has really deteriorated in my lifetime with the influx of Californians and East Infections that have moved into our state. I think we will see the liberals and progressives go down in flames and not get back into power for at least another generation thank god.

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Old 04-01-2010   #472
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 121
Utah Governor signs contentious stream access bill

Well, that's not a good precedent from our next door neighbor . ..

Governor signs contentious stream access bill - Salt Lake Tribune

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Old 04-01-2010   #473
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1988
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Just what we want to be, Utah
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Old 04-04-2010   #474
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Eagle, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
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Posts: 144
Was over at my parents house and came across the Colorado Farm Bureau News. On the front page the headline was "Right to Trespass Bill Passes Senate Judiciary Committee." From their quotes to ponder, "There is no right to float contained in Colorado's founding documents or in any case law. If there were, we wouldn't be fighting about HB 1188."

Clearly a lot of people in rural Colorado are against us and they're the kind of people that are hard to reason with. I think the private boating community needs to be on our best behavior this season. There are many people out there that oppose us and we sure don't want to give them any incidents or stories that they could glorify and use against us.
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Old 04-07-2010   #475
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Fort Collins, Colorado
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 30
Call in Discussion on Rocky Mountain PBS right now!!

Live call in on KBDI Public Television, and don't be a douche!
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Old 04-08-2010   #476
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: Feb 2010
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OK, lets see who is still out there. The Wall Street Journal ran a piss poor column today and are asking for votes. Wall Street Journal: General Forum River rafters vs. private property owners: which side should prevail? Please only vote once, I am sick of hearing how people cheat these things. Here is the article od=WSJ_hp_editorsPicks Here is another bullshit article
By Steven K. Paulson, AP Writer
Talks between a Taylor River landowner and a rafting company won't affect legislation defining the rights of rafting firms to use private Colorado waterways, a lawmaker said Wednesday.

The dispute began when landowners who developed a fishing resort on the banks of the Taylor River near Gunnison tried to bar rafters, claiming their trade interfered with fishing. Lewis Shaw II, president of Jackson-Shaw developers of Dallas, threatened to file a lawsuit.

A proposed settlement between Shaw and Mark Schumacher, owner of Three Rivers Resort, which offers rafting trips, called for Shaw to pay Schumacher $750,000 and give him a lot valued at $2.9 million to compensate Schumacher for lost rafting revenue. It also said any legislation regulating the Taylor would void the agreement.

"Let me be direct and clear. Legislators can and will introduce legislation as they see fit and cannot and will not be part of any outside agreement," House Majority Leader Paul Weissmann, D-Louisville, said in a letter Wednesday to attorneys for both sides.

The Taylor dispute prompted legislation to formally allow rafters to operate on Colorado rivers. That legislation is stalled in the Senate while Gov. Bill Ritter tries to settle the Taylor issue.

Marcus Lock, an attorney for Shaw, said he drew up the contract at Ritter's request and that rafting firms turned it down. But Ritter's chief of staff, Jim Carpenter, said Ritter wasn't aware of any financial offer.

Lock said Schumacher did very little rafting on the Taylor last year and that Shaw was offering cover the cost of lost business, even though Shaw thinks rafters should pay him for using private property.

Supporters of the legislation say North Dakota and Colorado are the only two states west of the Mississippi River that don't have strict protection for commercial rafters.
(© 2010 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.)

Shaw wants to buy off our rafting outfitters to get them to back down, he just forgot to make the offer to any of them, complete misinformation......Jack
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Old 04-08-2010   #477
Lakewood, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 504
60 boats a day on the Taylor? Is that accurate?

Also, we really need to clarify this anglers vs. rafters thing. I would say the vast majority of fishermen are on our side; it's only wealthy people that buy their way into unnatural settings like this place on the Taylor that stand not to benefit from a river access law. We really really need to draw a line in the sand and see who is where. I have a feeling it will look a lot like the results of that poll.
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Old 04-10-2010   #478
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Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 191
In regard to the BS in the above article. The meeting itself was agreed by both parties to remain confidential and was leaked by Lock to the AP. Lock is the same guy who is pressuring Gov. Bill to support mediation as they have convinced the Gov this is a local matter. Way to come to mediation with clean hands Lock! Mark S. did throw the offer out purely as a joke to counter their offer to buy him out. I believe he even already owns land on the Taylor. Hopefully this tactic will backfire and show the Gov and Senate who these guys really are.

What we can get out of this-
Don't stoop to their level. If you really believe we are right in our cause keep to the high road or you will only hurt what you are trying to help.

If you have had access problems with landowners on any of The People of Colorado's rivers please let the gov and your representatives know. Many of them think this problem is only on the Taylor.

Also, Rep. Curry is planning to move the bill this week so fire up the keyboard and send a river of letters to our legislators to support the House version of 1182.
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Old 04-11-2010   #479
Longmont, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: May 2009
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Senate pres. Brandon Shaffer is having a townhall this Tues. April, 13th at 6:30pm at Abbondanza Pizzeria in Longmont. I received an email from his office saying that this specific topic is up for discussion - if it is brought up. I am going to try to make it to ask why he thought it would be a good idea to have a 3rd party group (water congress) study the bill, when that group has already declared they are against the bill. Unfortunately, I am not sure if I will be able to make it that night - but thought I'd spread the word in case other longmont-area peeps would be interested.
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Old 04-11-2010   #480
Arvada (Denver), Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 250
HB 1188 KBDI discussion on tv or internet again

Originally Posted by jonas_f View Post
Live call in on KBDI Public Television, and don't be a douche!
You can watch the hour long HB 1188 video discussion again on "Studio 12" KBDI channel 12 April 14 at 8pm and again at 11:30pm and again on April 21, 2010 (DVR it).

Or, video on demand at

In particular on the tv show (and in his testimony at the HB 1188 Senate Judiciary Committee hearing), listen to what Mark Squillace, Director of CU's Natural Resources Law Center, knowledgeably advocates about having the Colorado Supreme Court give an opinion to set the ground rules rather than Colorado Water Congress doing a study. I believe this suggestion is in reference to Colorado Constitution Article VI, Section 3 as Squillace's basis:

"The supreme court shall give its opinion upon important questions upon solemn occasions when required by the governor, the senate, or the house of representatives; and all such opinions shall be published in connection with the reported decision of said court."

imo, it's a clear, cost effective and timely alternative solution since, as Squillace reasonably and insightfully mentions on the show, there is a fundamental disagreement between the private land title interest and the public water use interest over who has the dominant right of way to enjoy the easement for this issue between recreational use and property title.

Since the Legislature is punting, how about getting the Gov, Senate or House of Reps to require the Supremes to clarify this thing rather than John Hill's Colorado Water Congress cohorts?

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