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Old 08-12-2008   #31
Meng's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 787
Yeti -

Aside from the last paragraph of the above post (which again gets unnecessarily derogatory), your comments are noted and respected.

I understand your point of view and respect it - when delivered appropriately. I do understand your passion on the matter too.

True, longtime-local opinions should definitely be (and are) highly respected and listened to- but it's everyone's community. We all have an equal say, whether we have lived here for 40 years or 3 months. That's just how this country works.

All that said, I don't agree that a mine is a good thing for our community; such is the blessing of our democracy - the opportunity to use the process to pursue our beliefs. We both have the opportunity to be heard and work for what we believe.

While I recognize that this valley's economy was founded on mining, it is now based on tourism. If and when a mine above CB and a polluted watershed dramatically reduces tourism, our tax base will crumble, reducing funding for public services far more dramatically than what a few Lucky Jack contributions ever contributed.

For my part, I can totally get along with, paddle with and respect individuals of many beliefs, so I don't hold anything against you personally for what you advocate.

Anyway, whatever, lets go paddle and have some fun at the festival! See you there.

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Old 08-12-2008   #32
Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Thanks Meng.
Am I really a hippie? I eat steak too Yeti....
I wasnt out after every gunnison valley paddler's opinion but merely to inform others who may or may not care who one of the sponsors of OUR LOCAL festival was.
As a long time member of the community here I question the prudence of a mine in the upper reaches of our valley both environmentally and economically. The historical boom / bust cycle of mining is not going to benefit the long term sustainability of our communities, only the pockets of wealthy elite living far away; with very few "trickle down" benefits. I would much rather have a new neighbor from New Hampshire or Texas in my town than a multinational mining conglomerate any day and I think, unlike yourself Yeti, that most people in the gunnison valley agree. (just an assumption not a wild claim about voting on the issue)
respectfully TFPOBA

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Old 08-12-2008   #33
God Amongst Men
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Join Date: May 2005
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I would very heartily disagree. It is the EXACT same in regards to Snodgrass: when polled about it, the town of Mt Crested Butte, the town of Gunnison, and unincorporated Gunnison County are all in favor of both a mine and Snodgrass Expansion....the only folks that arent are the town of Crested Butte. It is VERY hard not to generalize in this situation, because of all the people who are against the mine and/or Snodgrass, it is always people of the same walk of life, folks who move here, think this is their paradise now, and that they suddenly know what's in the best interests of our valley. And unfortunately theyre are also the same ones that ride their $5000 mountain bikes and ski on brand new skis every year and drive around in their energy efficient Prius (all of which is built with MOLYBDENUM-HARDENED STEE) who make these claims about it ruining the valley. And I'm sorry, but no, we don't all have an equal say. Folks like the Stefanics and the Krizmanchs and the Gallowichs, the Vaders, the Spritzers, the longer you live here, the more weight your voice carries. People who have lived here 3 months don't know dick about this valley and what it means to live here. People that have lived here 50 years know this valley and know whats best for it. So no, we don't all have an equal opinion. The less amount of time you've lived here, the less you are allowed to say, because honestly, you don't get it. Not you personally, but the folks that just move here and decide it's "their turf".

"If and when"- How do you know it will??? What makes you so sure they will ruin it? Seriously, what is your reasoning? If you work for HCCA then you of all people should know how regulated and tightly controlled mining is these days, and how damn near impossible it is for an economic mishap to happen. Tell you what, why don't you get on a real problem in the county, like all the ATV's and dirt bikes from Texas causing problems in the wilderness. There's a fight you can win.

I respect your opinions but you have to understand, everything you are saying is basically stemming from one major belief that "MINING=BAD", when it's not!! What you need to do is go to Leadville, sit yourselves down with a few of the old timers and let them tell you how it is. You'll learn a lot and then maybe realize your allegations are baseless!
"Don't f$&@ing eddy out, just run it! Whaddya doin??" -LMyers
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Old 08-12-2008   #34
Indian Hills, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 221
dont mean to interupt the argument.

anybody interested in carpooling from the front range?
Jace Crane
720 290 0499
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Old 08-12-2008   #35
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We should stop debating on this thread and save it for a more appropriate venue.

Let's get this conversation back to getting people here for the River Festival and any questions they may have about the feature or event.

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Old 08-12-2008   #36
Gunnison, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Aug 2008
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A more approprite forum for the mine dialogue is MyGunnisonValley.com. Head on over there and see what's already been said.

To clarify on the Down River Race: Meet at South Bank, we'll shuttle everyone to the commercial put in. Registration at 8:30.

Hope to see everyone at the festival!
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Old 08-12-2008   #37
Join Date: Jul 2005
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A big thank you to YETI for making everyone who isn't from Gunnison County feel really UN-WELCOME to our festival............ We get our features improved and a new lease on the whitewater festival and one of our own (who has been here for 24 years mind you!) starts pissing all over everything, not just the fire! It is ok if miners come to the valley from out of town to work and live but I guess everyone else is SOL........ Come one, come all to the festival we added tarring and feathering to the lineup for non birth right folk and after we put you in this >
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Old 08-13-2008   #38
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Sandoz, you are putting false words into my mouth, and you are just trying to stoke the fire at this point. I defended everything I have to say, and your comments are a vain attempt at twisting my intentions.

I didnt say people who aren't from the valley should be unwelcome at all, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that people who have lived here for a short period of time maybe need to step back see if they truly have the best interests for the valley, and not for their own personal recreation enjoyment.

And again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said the miners should get to move here, and then no one else. I am saying that is what a lot of Crested Buttians believe!! They move here and think they have discovered paradise, and that it;s ok for them to move here, but suddenly it becomes their missiont to make sure no one else does. It's what is called the "Last Person Here" syndrome, and I have met a LOT of folks in CB who feel this way. "well, Im just so glad we moved here, lets just hope nobody else does now". Thats total bullshit!! I'm all for people moving here, from whatever walk of life you may be, because like I said, the more money will come in!

And for the last time, you are AGAIN putting words in my mouth. The only people I told not to come were people who are going to make a big deal about the mine. If you want to cause problems and start shit and berate the mine and how its "soooooo bad", then take it elsewhere. Because the festival is not the place for it!

That being said, thanks again for taking everything I said and stretching it to an unbelieveable point.

I hope everyone comes out and has a good time at our festival. its a bummer it couldnt have been back in June but hey, at least we have one.
"Don't f$&@ing eddy out, just run it! Whaddya doin??" -LMyers
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Old 08-13-2008   #39
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And sandoz, one more thing.............how come you are such a dick????

I've tried to go boating with you several times and you never seem to reply or be interested in going. I get passionate about things that affect my life, such as the mine, but I leave that all behind when I get on the river. And yet you never seem to reply or message back.....What's the word dude?

Pretty sure I saw you last night on the taylor, and you werent putting words in my mouth them, so why do you have to now?
"Don't f$&@ing eddy out, just run it! Whaddya doin??" -LMyers
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Old 08-13-2008   #40
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 74
Sorry Yeti,
Not trying to be a "sexual organ located in the lower abdominal area".......
I will say ala menges, if you know who I am and see me on the river then introduce yourself. I don't know who you are, guess now I have an idea considering who was on the taylor last night. Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth just make a little jest about the whole your not from here thing which I have experienced in Maine and Vermont also...... I like being called a flatlander over a hippy but i digress. I am out of town alot and usually only get out after work once in a while if I am lucky so I am not avoiding paddling with you! I think you have a clear vision in your head but take a flock of words and stir in some malice and people might get the wrong idea about what you are saying......... Just my opinion, so let's agree to disagree on the mine thing and if you see me say what's up and we'll boat sometime. Just want everyone to come to the festival and have a good time after some down years due to our features and planning.... Sorry you took such offense to the smoking gun post! Cheers, Dave

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