Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-03-2009   #11
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
Meeting in Denver tonight, 12/3 Thursday

There is a meeting at the Stapleton Doubletree Hotel TONIGHT. I will be attending and hope to see many others that can make it. My points will be that the Fraser River is already horribly dewatered, and that the expansion must not destroy anymore of the Upper South Boulder Canyon, which includes the some of the greatest whitewater on the front range, namely RIMBY. I hope to see others there.

Kyle McCutchen
Cutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009   #12
KSC's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,032
Unfortunately I can't make this tonight, but I wonder if someone could post the significant arguments on each side from these meetings? I'd like to at least send some intelligent written comments.

I'm still unclear whether or not the added capacity would impact rapids on USB. Does anyone have a definitive answer? That certainly seems important from the whitewater community's standpoint of recreational impact.

Personally I tend to be against most of these types of water projects at this point. We don't really solve any problems with this type of project. The Front Range is desirable place to live with a large number of employment opportunities. Because of that people will keep coming here. All that a water project like this does is allow more development until we once again have the same shortage of water as before (if not worse since people seem to always overestimate the benefits of these projects and developers always adopt these best case estimates). I think people supporting these either do not have any long term vision for the community and are merely looking out for their own benefits, or they see them as stop-gap measures with the hope that some technology revelation will lead us out of the mess. Unfortunately history has generally frowned up populations overextending their resources.

KSC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009   #13
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
Well said. I will post some of what is said at the meeting.
Kyle McCutchen
Cutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009   #14
Mad Scientist/Creeker
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 803

You may know better than I but to me it looks on the map like it would flood at the very least the entire run-out to RIMBY if not the whole rapid when it would be full to capacity.
Evan Stafford
Cub boater: "What do the spiders mean?" Old fart boater: "Trust your intuition." CRCII
RiverWrangler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009   #15
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 273
Send a message via AIM to xkayaker13
Based on that map, and other topo maps RIMBY will likely be gone. RIMBY is located on the end of the straightaway in which the new reservoir capacity would fill up to. The run out will definitely be gone, the boof will likely be under water, and the entrance to the RIMBY may be above still. Regardless, the entire rapid should still be exposed during early season when the reservoir's level is low. The flooding of the rapid could cause other issues though.

In my opinion, USB doesn't need much more water during peak runoff although it may help extend the season. USB at 1500cfs? I'm not so sure about that idea. haha
xkayaker13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009   #16
Tabernash, Colorado
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21
Ignorance!!Kill a river ========kill a valley not only the Fraser is affected here......fuck you Denver fuck you Denver Waterboard. Water some more sidewalks........
teleski1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009   #17
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
To telltwurp and telliski, you are both idiots. This issue is much larger than some east vs west pissing match. This is not some gain to the front range or Denver kayaking community. This is the death and alteration of the Fraser River (which is already pretty dead), the Blue River, and the loss of flows to the entire Colorado basin. It is high water Gore and Barrel Springs. It is the destruction of the bottom .4 miles of the Upper South Boulder run, and the destruction of the most scenic parts of the run, the parts of the run that are furthest removed from the railroad. It is the addition of 3/4 miles of flatwater to the lake paddle out. It is the alteration of flows to South Boulder Creek which are already horribly unnatural, and often run to high during the season, because they add as much water as they are allowed, based on a percentage of the natural flow. It makes high water higher, and the shoulder seasons drop off more quickly so that are runnable window is shortened... if the place would even still be worth running. It is the destruction of RIMBY, one of the only wilderness waterfalls in the Denver/Boulder area, and the affection of it being Right In My Back Yard should be noted that this is Denver's backyard. It's boulder's back yard. It's Wigston's backyard. It is the further alteration of flows in the Lower South Boulder Canyon. They will justify the other destruction by increased flows on USB, which does little good since most of that water will be pumped into the newly proposed Leyden Gulch Reservoir, and that water will never make it to our legal access point in Eldo Canyon.

This proposal will negatively affect every kayaker in Colorado. This is not some east vs west, summit vs front range, native vs non-native issue. This is an issue that every kayaker that wants to continue kayaking needs to deal with now. I was in a room last night of roughly 50 people. Three kayakers showed up. Myself, CWWA access director, and a paddler that works for Denver Water. Out of the six people that spoke last night, every single person was opposed to the project. Everyone was either a politician or worked for Denver Water. Hopefully someone will show up the meeting in the mountains, since bitching about it here is doing little.
Kyle McCutchen
Cutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009   #18
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 772
My impression of this project was it is going to happen one way or another. Being at the meeting did it seem like they were taking comments to make the best decisions or just taking them because they are obligated to? The unfortunate part of this is they will go where the money is even if it is destructive and unethical.
Nathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009   #19
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
It's very easy to ignore 6 of us in a room of 50-60.

I will be at the next meeting to voice my concerns. I will do what I can to stop this project. I won't sit and watch our best double black drown and simply accept that we will get more powder on the greens and will be able to ride the same. This is bullshit. I will at least fight for what I can.

December 8th Keystone Conference Center, Keystone (10633 Tennis Club Road, Keystone)
Kyle McCutchen
Cutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2009   #20
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 393
Cutch - Thanks for being on this and sorry I was unable to make last nights meeting (and will likely be unable to make the Keystone meeting.)

Is there someone we can address public comments to? A targeted e-mail/letter writing campaign could possibly be quite effective.

KSC makes good points above that I would like to include in some written comments somewhere.

RIMBY is in my top 5 fav rapids on the Front Range and it would really suck for it to sink. Also, for everyone but Christian USB season will be shortened by this. The unnatural USB flows already suck as USB goes from 200 to 1000 in under a week and often drops back to 200 in under a week.

doublet is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
opinions about the Gross Resevoir expansion project wade@watershed Whitewater Kayaking 16 10-21-2008 11:23 AM
Gross enlargement -- potential reservoir expansion to drown part of USB ACC Whitewater Kayaking 10 09-03-2008 04:43 AM
Reclamation Increases Flows from Green Mountain Reservoir Bureau of Reclamation Buzz Announcements 0 06-19-2007 11:29 AM
SBC - Below Gross IkayakNboard Whitewater Kayaking 2 05-18-2006 12:18 PM
Glade Reservoir MPEARSON Whitewater Kayaking 1 02-23-2006 09:38 PM

» Classified Ads

posted by jordanfrank7

I am selling my kayak to get ready for the winter season. ...

Wavesport Fuse 56...

posted by SummitSurfer

Wavesport Fuse 56 "Medium" barely used in great condition. ...

Perception's Corsica...

posted by ARraces

Perception's Corsica Overflow WHITEWATER Kayak....

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:19 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.