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Old 12-09-2005   #1
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883
Grand Canyon Waiting List Transition

People on the Grand Canyon waiting list will soon be given the opportunity to merge their list numbers with others on the list, to improve their chances of selection for a trip.

It's not evident right now what the Park Service may be able to do (because of privacy concerns) to help people on the list contact each other for this purpose. However, Grand Canyon Private Boater's Association has set up a special forum where people can exchange information and decide if they want to partner up. The link for that forum is:,39/catid,16/

Good luck on getting the trip you want!!


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Old 12-10-2005   #2
Father of illegitimate San Juan sasquatch children, Climax. CO
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 211
-What does this mean? merging waitlist #'s. Why would you want to? What are the benefits?
-Also, does any one know how the park service will phase out the waitlist?
Will the waitlist be cancelled after all the people on the waitlist have gotten a trip? or How do you put people on the cuurrent waitlist into a new lottery before the current waitlist if fullfilled? Will we get points toward being drawn first for trips in the lottery? Sounds like a disaster, not that it will be, but...!
-I hope they phase out the current list so that all the people waiting will get their chance. 8 years I will be waiting with 503 private trips a year compared to the 16 i was waiting with 277 a year. Lucky i got on the list when i was 21. now i'm 27! It will be good to take a trip with my old friends when we are 35. See you old bastard's then, yeeeehaaaa!

floaty22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2005   #3
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883

Here's the pertinent section of the NPS FAQ on this topic, which can be found at:


7. What will happen to the Colorado River Permit Waitlist now that a preferred option has been chosen in the Final EIS?

The preferred option for transitioning from the current, frozen waitlist to the preferred permit system (hybrid weighted lottery) is the Three-Stage Expedited Transition Option. The three stages of this expedited transition would take place during the first four to six months after the Record of Decision (ROD) is signed.

Stage 1 - During the 1st stage, members of the waitlist will be given one final two-month chance to schedule launch dates through the existing waitlist. A total of 600 launch dates (from the 2007 through 2011 seasons) will be made available for this purpose. People who are not successful in this stage would transition to stage 2.

Stage 2 - The 2nd stage will be a two-month, modified waitlist stage, in which waitlist members will be allowed to band together and advance up the list based on their combined waits. For example, if Pat had been on the waitlist for five years and Robin for nine years, their combined wait would be 14 years, so they would receive one number and be ahead of all those who had waited 13 years or less. After this two-month stage, 600 additional launches (from the 2007 through 2011 seasons) will be made available to those combined waitlist members with the greatest wait totals. People who are not successful in this stage would transition to stage 3.

Stage 3 – In this final transition stage, everyone left on the waitlist would need to give up their old waitlist spot and the existing waitlist would no longer exist. People will be given two basic choices:

* Trade their spot on the waitlist for one extra chance in the new hybrid lottery for each year they had been on the existing waitlist (in addition to the total chances they would normally have had); or
* Accept a refund for the price they paid to join the waitlist.

The NPS estimates that approximately 33% of current waitlist members will succeed in getting a launch through stage 1 and stage 2 and the majority of the rest will succeed in obtaining launches within ten years through the hybrid lottery system. (See section 4.4.8 titled "Permit System Options Analysis" in the Final EIS for detailed information.)


Hope this helps.

richp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2005   #4
Father of illegitimate San Juan sasquatch children, Climax. CO
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 211
Hey, thanks alot!
I am a full-time student and full-time worker. I am greatful for the time you spent working out the particulars.
-Quick question. It looks like I will be waiting for up to another ten years if I do not get a launch date in stage 1 or 2 and since stage 1 or 2 will end in 2011 then I could be waiting for a while (maybe 5 years).
What do you think would be the most lucrative strategy for stages 1 or 2?
Doesn't it sound like wall street (lucrative, strategy...)
Thanks for input,
John Wade
floaty22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2005   #5
Father of illegitimate San Juan sasquatch children, Climax. CO
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 211
Hey, I just realized something.
-Stage 1 and 2 would be concurrent with the implementation of the new lottery waitlist starting somewhere around 2007. So I will not be waiting as long as i thought before (circa 2021). I am also assuming that there will be cancelation launch dates made avaliable to current waitlist persons during the four months of stage 1 and stage 2. The private launch dates available to people on the current list total 300 private dates per year between 2007-2011 (150 a year from stage 1 and 150 a year from 2).
-Once those 1200 launch dates are set from the current waitlist (four month period for stages 1 & 2) then it sounds like in stage 3 they will start drawing names from the new lottery list for private lottery launches starting with the 203 leftover dates in each year between 2007-2011. From that point (2011) they will implement the lottery draw every year after 2011 for all 503 private launch dates.
-Is this correct?
Thanks for your help!
John Wade
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Old 12-11-2005   #6
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883
Hi John,

If you've been on the list for 6 years, you can't have a very low number, so I'd say your best option would be to try to partner up with other folks in phase 2.

Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association has just started an information exchange on its web page, to help folks like you get together and decide if they want to partner for this purpose. The link is:,16/

And I read it the same way you do on the available launches. After 2011, the lottery slots will total 503 every year. Also, it looks to me like with 6 years credit for time on the list and another five chances (the maximum) because you haven't been on the river in the last five years (this is in another section of the plan), you would have roughly double the chances in the lottery as somebody who had not been on the list.

Best to you.


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