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Old 08-06-2007   #61
Frisco, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8
Dear BLM
Please clarify for us all,
Does this mean that if I and a few friends show up at pumphouse on the weekend of the 17th, just as we might any random weekend of the year, to do a little boating and camping-again, JUST AS WE MIGHT ON ANY GIVEN WEEKEND, we're going to face harassment and ticketing by the BLM? Does the BLM plan on just shutting the entire area down from gore to statebridge for this weekend? Because I'm not really sure how the BLM would decide WHO to ticket, fine, arrest, whatever and who NOT to ticket, etc. We are all private boaters, how will it be decided who's there for "Gore Fest" and who might just be there anyway? Would the obvious clueless tourists get left alone? Should we all just speak with Texas accents and pretend to be fishing?
(No particular offense meant to clueless people, tourists, Texans, fishers, or any combination thereof)

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Old 08-06-2007   #62
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Summit, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
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Originally Posted by andyatBLM View Post
The Gore Canyon Race officially authorized or otherwise is competitive and therefore requires an SRP.

So if nobody races no permits are necessary, correct? A handful of people decide to run a classic [and public] stretch of river. No permits necessary, no tickets, etc.

"The world would be a better place if everyone kayaked."-Brad Ludden (Valhalla)
"You only get one chance to run a drop blind."-DD
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Old 08-07-2007   #63
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097

posted before I was finished....
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Old 08-07-2007   #64
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
I spoke with Andy at length about the situation. He is reasonable and friendly and wants to see the Gore event prosper in the future. What I got out of the discussion was...

No race. Whether informal, formal, sponsored, unsponsered etc. Organizing any kind of race would violate the BLM's permitting rules and they will issue citations. They know about mountainbuzz, so shit talking, or trying to organize something underground will only strain boater and BLM relations. They have a job to do, and I respect that. Its a bummer that there will be no race, but the boating community didn't figure out a way to get it done this year. Time to start planning for next year to bring it back.

OK to boat Gore. It is OK to boat Gore and camp at pumphouse that weekend. The BLM facilities are set up for boating and camping, so its OK to do that. There could be problems with lots of people showing up with little organization, so the boating community needs to work together to do the right thing (which we would do anyway, right?) The BLM hopes that crowds will be minimized by not having "the race", but understands that boaters will show up that weekend regardless.

-Do not use the railroad tracks! Major issue! Spread the word.
-Be safe. Paddle with a solid group. Don't boat over your limits. There will not be organized safety this year. The BLM is concerned that boaters trying to step up could get into big trouble and that there will be no organized safety and evacuation set up.
-Be cautious, be safe.
-No race. The BLM takes this seriously.

Put In
-Carpool and shuttle as efficiently as possible
-Do not block traffic on the road while parking
-Parking off the side of the road is OK as long as you are not on vegetation
-Allow space for commercial outfitters to access put in
-Consider having shuttle bunny drive vehicle back to takeout.
-BLM noted that if you are parked illegally or blocking access don't be suprised if you get towed.

Pumphouse / Takeout
-After campsites are filled, dispersed camping is OK
-BLM asked to limit groups in campsites to 10 or less
-Standard river camping practices: firepan, pack out trash, groover if you are dispersed camping away from pumphouse
-Minimize conflicts with other pumphouse users. Floaters, fishermen etc will be using pumphouse as a put in. Try to be courteous.
-There will be extra day parking at pumphouse to accomodate additional boater traffic.

Other Issues
-The BLM understands that boaters want to boat Gore and they don't want to stop that.
-The BLM is concerned that a large gourp of boaters could cause problems by having more people present than the facilites can effectively handle. In the past this has been managed with a lot of up front prep work, communication, volunteers etc.
T-he BLM wanted to ask boaters that can change their schedule to boat on other weekends to help minimize crowds if possible.
-The BLM noted that there will be law enforcement there to enforce the regulations.

So if boaters show up, work together, shuttle efficiently, are safe on the river, clean up after themselves, keep things chill and have a good time, there should not be a problem.

It also sounds like any screw ups will not be dealt with leniently and that parking issues, camping issues, user conflicts, rail road issues etc will be dealt with by enforcement that are present.

Other good ideas mentioned were to carpool up to Gore from home if possible to minimize traffic.

I think that the boating community can come together, have a good time at Gore, and mind the few common sense regulations that we would follow on any big weekend, overnighter, etc.

A good showing this weekend will be a positive stepping stone to setting up a proper event next year.

The big question is who is going to do it next year. Joffe / Rapidpulse picking it back up? AW / CW organizations taking it over? It should be sorted out by the end of the year to start permitting it early next year.

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Old 08-07-2007   #65
Frisco, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8
I wasn't trying to shit talk the BLM, just wanted to know if there was going to be some ridiculous gestapo-type scene if a few of us decide to boat and camp that weekend. The previous post by AndyfromBLM(?not sure) kinda made it sound like anyone showing up to run Gore was going to be accused of trying to organize a race without a permit and be subjected to fines, ticketing, and arrest. So I was a bit concerned. But it sounds like the BLM plans on being reasonable as long as everyone uses common sense and is respectful-which shouldn't be a problem for most of us, at least.
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Old 08-07-2007   #66
raftus's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Deepsouth - Thank you for taking the lead on getting this info and distributing it. Hopefully we can all have a great weekend at Gore.
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Old 08-07-2007   #67
miker's Avatar
Indian Hills
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 340
I wonder how many days it would take to get a permit if we had $12,000?

8-ballers gonna show? I dare you.
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Old 08-07-2007   #68
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
blm bullshit

blm bull shit

spread out over weekends bull shit.

what up with the post earlier from blm about what was okay unofficial is unofficial whats the problem? people choose to run gore almost everyday just because a big group is running it all together how is this not any safer than before?

blm = bullies, im staying away that weekend im good without being thrown in jail and harrassed. even though i took that weekend off in february but blm wants everybody to try to plan for other weekends.

blm thinks they are the fucking FBI

its not like anything special is happening. 180 days bull shit for permits? must take a long time for that peice of paper work to make it from one side of the desk to the other! might have to quite playing the card games on the computer for 2 seconds!

straight up bull shit

remember yourbill of rights
if you are approached and plead

1 .right to a peacful assemble. and we do have the right not to agree!

4.for you people that are going to get searched for stuff most of you wont have.

5 don't have to say anything!

8 xcessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted
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Old 08-07-2007   #69
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
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Easy on the BLM Caspermike. Harshing on them won't do anything constructive. The boating community had the opportunity to make the Gore race work and it just didn't happen this year. Its not the BLM's fault that sponsors and organization didn't materialize in time.

Here is my extended take on the BLM, gore race, etc.

The BLM has a job to do, like it or not. I do not fault them for doing their job. Gore runs on BLM land and they are tasked with managing it. If Gore were on my land it would be a different story, but its not. If 150 boaters show up and race with no permit and somebody drowns, gets injured, had issues with the railroad etc. you can bet the BLM will take major heat for it. You can also bet that screw ups this year could potentially lead to the end of the gore race permanently and could potentially screw up access. Think about your actions and their reprocussions. The high school attitude of F the man and the system will only hinder access to Gore in the future. Its a gem for boaters all over the west and one of the few things going late season. We have great access right now, and usually a kick ass party at the end of the season. Don't screw it up!

The BLM is charged with managing the land for multiple uses, not just class V kayak races. There are a number of users including fisherman, rafters, campers, the railroad, commercial outfitters etc that want to have access to the same land that we do on that weekend. The level of use on Gore weekend is beyond the capacity that pumphouse was intended to handle, and to make sure things go smooth, you need planning and you need extra organization and staffing. A lot of work goes on behind the scenes so that we can show up, run gore, party at pumphouse and have a great weekend.

Planning includes working with the railroad to see what track activity will be during the weekend as well as setting up potential logistics to get injured boaters out of the canyon via the tracks. You don't call up the railroad a week before and set this up. According to the BLM there are over 20 trains a day running through the canyon.

Planning also takes a while to get volunteers, shuttles, road logistics etc sorted out. 180 days does seem like a long time, but its the BLM rules, and you have to play by them on BLM land.

As for the permitting process, the BLM runs on rules and regulations. The permit is not a slip of paper to sign, its a process that gets the communication and logistics worked out by all the major parties including the BLM, race organizers, sponsors, insurance, the railroad, outfitters etc. There are a lot of stakeholders out there that need to be in the loop to make this happen smoothly.

In my discussions with the BLM, they are honestly concerned about safety. They know boaters looking to step up go to Gore weekend because there will never be another time when there is more safety. The race organizers had volunteer safety boaters at every rapid, and folks ready with ropes etc. There were communication protocols set up and evacuations plans to get people out of the canyon. The BLM is worried that if an accident happens that boaters might try to use the railroad to get out and could have some serious issues with the trains. Another option would be a search and rescue mission into the canyon with no prior planning. The BLM doesn't want either of them. So a large amount of boaters with super organized safety is way more safe than a large amount of boaters with no organized safety. Some may take gore lightly as a fun run thats not too difficult, but the BLM sees it as a serious class V run with serious potential consequences.

So be reasonable, be respectful, do the right thing, and it won't be a problem.

Showing up to try to race, be spiteful, or start shit could sour relations with the BLM and ruin access for us all.

If the BLM wanted to, the could close the canyon to private boating that weekend for lack of a permit. They are not doing that, they are just asking for the community to be responsible and the work with them due to the fact that permits and organization did not happen this year. I assured the BLM that the majority of boaters would gladly work with them to have a fun, safe time and that we would take care of the issues that the BLM lined out.

I was looking forward to gore this year just like everyone else. I personally will try to abide by the wishes of the BLM, because I'd like to continue running Gore, and I'd like to have continued access to one of the best runs on the colorado river.

Don't underestimate the negative consequences for screwing up on gore weekend and realize that your actions could impact the entire boating community for a long time to come.

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Old 08-07-2007   #70
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Indian Hills
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 340
Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
blm bull shit

spread out over weekends bull shit.

blm = bullies, im staying away that weekend im good without being thrown in jail and harrassed. even though i took that weekend off in february but blm wants everybody to try to plan for other weekends.

blm thinks they are the fucking FBI

straight up bull shit
Easy ghost man. You should stay away from Gore that weekend. Because with that temper you may get yourself arrested. But you may already know that.

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