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Old 05-23-2006   #41
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Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by mike a
And for those who think that there is a scientific consensus, read here about the upcoming mini ice age that is forcasted:
Believe me, National Geographic is not a consevative institution.
Uhm...did you actually read that link of yours? It's about global warming shutting down the gulf stream. It certainly doesn't refute the overwhelming scientific consensus that the earth as a whole is getting warmer, but rather points out new evidence of one of the more catastrophic effects of that warming.

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Old 05-24-2006   #42
BV, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Just a couple of thoughts...I'm no scientiest.

I think its dangerous to dry to compartmentalize these issues(Mike a).

Nor can our observations be mutualy exclusive. ie...The local environment is effected by climate change. Drought, pine beatle, massive fires. The effects dont end at the county or state line. Throw in the concepts of choas theory.

I agree, the earth has and always will go through warming and cooling cycles and to my knowledge nobody refutes that. We are just helping those swings be more severe.

As far as ego, maybe its ego telling us that we are so great and smart that we couldnt possibly be doing any harm.

Just my 2

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Old 05-24-2006   #43
to many things
Join Date: May 2006
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thank you guys, I was so worried I was entering a world of frustration with this post... but you have all impressed me beyond words just how independently you are all capable of thinking. if you all get a chance read a book or two by a guy named Kary B. Mullis or how ever you spell it (sorry I spell like a 12 year old). He won the Nobel Prize and is brilliant but very controversial, but only because he goes above the normal acceptance in the world of science. I worked for the German cancer research institute for a while and I finally got out of it because when politics start effecting people’s lives, I can no longer sleep at night with my self. the same goes across the boards for who is going to get the next big government grant, they are ruthless and will lie to the end if they think they will get away with it... and why not, how many have been caught, that one guy, who’s name we already forgot, in Singapore for saying he cloned things he didn’t. furthermore, just look at the fossilized evidence at the poles of tropical plants and sea shells... this is not naturally a polar caped planet... now don’t get me wrong, I like clear air and hate litter but I also know that the idea that we as humans are capable of throwing the largest known buffer in the universe (our atmosphere) is a bit over blown!
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Old 05-24-2006   #44
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 45
I'm more worried about the cover-ups of alternative energy sources by oil cartel. Magnetic engines, hydrogen powered engines, cold fusion, etc.... The earth is ready to change, and will as it always does. Look at the past, Ice age, polor shifting, widespread disease etc.. but we need to change with it.

The technology is there! It's just being repressed by certain groups. Patterns are being bought up and burried.

As far as global warming its to hard to say. The facts, like in all things these days are jaded by different sides of the argument. 70% of Statistics are made up on the spot. So whose to say what is true and what is not. But one thing is without doubt, the earth is changing. But that is nothing new.

In my opinion, yes I think things are getting dryer and warming a bit in the USA.
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Old 05-24-2006   #45
to many things
Join Date: May 2006
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well you can look at the over seas differences, in Germany they have fields of little yellow flowers that they make diesel with and its cheaper over there, substantially, than petrol.... they also have the high performance diesel cars, i.e.: Audi a8 4.2 td, which I can say from experience is a phenomenal automobile!!! Yet what’s wrong with us... we have hardly any diesel cars except the late 80s early 90s Mercedes Junkers, and its more expensive than petrol, why can’t we grow flowers and make some fuel???? Is it that freaking hard or crazy of an idea, but only if we have the performance )

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