GC Lottery Information

[richp]

Dear [name], (user name: xxx)

We are writing to let you know that from August 17, 2007 through noon on August 22, 2007 applications will be accepted through our lottery website for 9 cancelled trips launching in September through December of this year).

The trips are all for standard sized groups (1 to 16 people):
09/08/07
09/20/07
10/14/07
10/27/07
10/31/07
11/03/07
11/08/07
11/15/07
12/22/07

If you are interested in one of these launches, please login at
https://npspermits.us and click on "Create Application". Individuals who are at least 18 years old and not already members of other noncommercial or commercial trips launching in calendar year 2007 are eligible to apply, and no person may be listed on more than 1 application. The lottery drawings will take place on August 23rd at noon.

If you cannot remember your password, you can have it reset and sent to the email address you listed in your lottery profile by completing the form at:
https://npspermits.us/grandcanyon/river/forgotLogin.cfm. If you need help submitting an application online or navigating the website, please send us an email to grca_riv@nps.gov or call 1-800-959-9164. We are happy to help.

You have been sent this courtesy email in response to the preferences you indicated when setting up your profile which has a username of "[name]".
You can change your preferences, address, and email accounts any time by logging into your account. If you have two profiles on the system or you received two or more emails listing different login names, this issue needs to be resolved immediately, before the lottery. In the lottery system, people may each have only one account; A LOTTERY WINNER HAVING MORE THAN ONE ACCOUNT MAY HAVE THEIR WINNING TRIP REVOKED. If you act soon, before the lottery, resolving this issue is easy and harmless. Just send us an email to grca_riv@nps.gov, include the login name of the profile you want deleted, and ask us to delete the account.

We hope you have a great year and wish good luck to all who apply in the lottery.

Sincerely,
Steve Sullivan

P.S. We plan on holding a calendar year 2008 secondary lottery in the
coming weeks for available January and February 2008 launch dates.

P.P.S. We expect to hold the calendar year 2009 main lottery in February 2008.

River Office Contact Information:

Phone: 800-959-9164 or 928-638-7843
Fax: 928-638-7844
email: grca_riv@nps.gov
Lottery: https://npspermits.us
FAQ page:
http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisi...ttery_FAQs.pdf

web info: Grand Canyon National Park (U.S. National Park Service) - click on River Permits

U.S. Postal Service Mailing Address:
River Permits Office
P.O. Box 129
Grand Canyon, AZ 86023-0129

Address for Other Mailing Services:
River Permits Office
#1 Village Loop Road
Grand Canyon, AZ 86023

[El quapo]

Yeah, thats great and everything but you gotta be kidding me about this paying 25$ per application(or per lottery I should say)!!!!! Why cant once a year, per app. be good enough!?

I know it's not your fault but that's some crap.

[richp]

Hi El Quapo,

Might be a mis-reading here. One $25 fee gets you into all the lotteries for that year. You don't have to pay a separate fee once you've initially registered and paid.

Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips
VP, GCPBA

[El quapo]

Ok, well I went through the whole application process for the summer of 08. After I saw one of your postings for a free launch date at some point this year, i quickly went in, applied for those days they had launches cancel or whatever, got thru the app. and then it asked for my Credit Card. When I promptly told it to piss off and canceled.

So I take it, since I was applying for an 08 launch date originally and this second try was on so-and-so date in 07, that my fee didn't cover this year?? If so, that's still really lame. Thanks for any help clearing this up for me, Rich.

[richp]

Hi again,

That's a situation I hadn't heard of yet. Let me get in touch with Steve Sullivan in the River Office and see what I can find out. What you say may be where it's at -- different years requiring separate fees.

If I can't contact him right away for some reason, I'm meeting with him and Mike McGinnis (the chief river ranger) in a couple of weeks to cover a wide variety of issues for GCPBA/ I'll surely be able to ask him then. But hopefully long before that.

I'll get back with you.

Rich Phillips
VP, GCPBA

[oarbender]

rich, I don't have any specifics, other than i was denied on my app. for 08.

I was also under the impression that i had to pay a 25$ fee for any other lotteries during the year.

I also thought that was complete crap, and just a way to get more $$$ flowing.

I have had conversations with others regarding this, and we are all in the same boat......( no pun intended)

when you have time, could you please explain? and if this has already been discussed, please post a link to the discussion.

thanks in advance

oarbender~

[richp]

Hi Oarbender,

I haven't heard back from Steve Sullivan yet, but I'm pretty sure the answer was embedded in the first posted question itself -- money from one year doesn't work for another year. Seems he was in the 2008 lottery, but wanted access to the 2007 cancellations when he hadn't been in the 2007 lottery (which -- if that were the case -- would have given him the fee credit he was thinking he would get).

The GC River Office has a set of FAQs that contain this relevant content.

***

How much does it cost to apply in a lottery?

Applying through the Weighted Lottery costs $25 and covers the current lottery plus all follow-up lotteries for launch dates that occur within the same launch year. For example, if you paid for the 2008 main lottery (held in May 2007), you can apply for free for all follow-up lotteries for other launch dates occurring in 2008 that become available due to cancellations. (Note, the $25 lottery fee is paid only by the main applicant; PATLs do not need to pay this fee.) Winners through the lottery are required to pay additional fees. (RP note - the $100 per person fees for the actual trip.)

For a look at the entire FAQ, which was recently updated and contains a lot of other good info, try http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisi...ttery_FAQs.pdf

Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips
VP, GCPBA

Join Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association at Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association
Click on "Join", and support active, ongoing private boater
representation on Grand Canyon issues. And follow GC issues on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gcpba/messages

[richp]

OK,

Here's the full explanation on how the fee structure works, straight from the horse's mouth. As usual, Steve was very quick in his response.

***

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the question. There are many ways things could have been set up, and each has its own merits. Here is how we did it. The $25 lottery fee is charged once for each calendar year for which (not in which) a person chooses to apply. That way if a person is interested in a date within a particular year and loses out with the main lottery, they can compete for free in all subsequent lotteries for that launch date and all other dates that occur within the same year.

These supplemental lotteries will occur often, maybe 4 to 10 times per year and will eventually span almost a two year period (e.g. the 2009 main lottery will occur in February 2008 and follow up lotteries for 2009 could occur through late 2009).

Most people will pay this fee with the main lottery, and rather than shut everyone else out of subsequent drawings, we give them a chance to compete by allowing them to pay at the time of the follow-up lottery. Once they have paid, their profile tracks this and ensures they are not charged again for the same year.

I hope this is clear. Please let me know if you or they have any other
questions.

Sincerely,
Steve Sullivan


***

Hope this helps.

Rich Phillips
VP, GCPBA

Join Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association at Grand Canyon Private Boaters Association
Click on "Join", and support active, ongoing private boater
representation on Grand Canyon issues. And follow GC issues on
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gcpba/messages