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Old 02-14-2006   #11
Fort Collins, Colorado
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23
I agree with Cutch, one good feature is better than 3-4 mediocre features. Where my concern lies is, as we know, more and more communities are trying to put in play parks, which raises the awareness of the upstream water users even further who then put more pressure on the politicians to pass legislation securing water for upstream users making it more difficult to secure downstream water. At least by having one feature the Ft. Collins play park is in place hopefully securing recreational water use now before it becomes more difficult to secure downstream water later. Furthermore, once an investment is made and a project is started, government and others have a vested interest making it harder to abandon. I understand that there are counter arguments to this, however, I believe having a bird in the hand is better than having two in the bush. (sorry for using and overused saying)

Just curious, how much money would have the GOCO grant brought in if it would have been approved. Is it an outrageous amount of $$$$ or something that, if need be, could be raised. Do we need GOCO $$$$ to start and finish one feature or is there currently enough money for one feature? If not enough money for one feature how much are we short by. If so, what are the pitfalls of starting with one feature and expanding from there.
Build it and they will come.

I am sure that the good people who are in charge of this project have thought all of this out and have it under control. If my post comes across as accusatory or a non-confidence vote it is not meant to be. On the contrary, I appreciate all of the effort being made by those putting time into this project. I am just curious to where we are in the process.

Lastly, a dime bag, there was one once? Is this a variant of the ever popular Piedmont Purple.

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Old 02-14-2006   #12
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 21
agreed! Last I heard was that the park is going to cost $120,000 or so, which is chump change when it comes to park. The park would only have 2 good features at most. All I know is that if we got the GOCO grant it would have put us at totals around $120,000,so i am guessing the grant is around 60 g's or so. Well I got another 25 bucks to spare, so looks like we only need about $59,975 more to go!!!(unless 10 of that goes torward another dime bag) Anyways, you are preaching to the wrong quire if you want to get involoved find the people in charge of this operation. But not to worry Horn we can car pool it to golden and lyons this spring, if nothing else

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Old 02-17-2006   #13
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 14
fort collins paddle park update

Hello all.

At the request of this thread, the Downtown River Enhancement VOLUNTEER committee would like to update everyone. Believe me, we are all frustrated too.

First of all, I would like to encourage Mr Cohen to contact me personally with questions regarding the whitewater park effort! I take it personally that he's called our integrity into question. I've worked my ass of for years on this project, so I really don't want to hear it. Most people would have given up years ago. I'm too damn stubborn. I can be reached at I can give you my phone #. I've been very free with information on the fundraising always. Don't know where mr cohen gets off.

So, let's set the record straight.

First of all, I've never guaranteed a timeline. The timeline was created as a hopeful outcome based on the reception of a GOCO grant, which did not come through. That, and timelines rarely come true in our great city.

There is nearly $24K sitting in the Friends of the Poudre bank account waiting for the city to tell us how to present the money to them, and waiting for them to take the project for the design phase. There is lots of liability at stake, and none of us want liability for a city paddle park! Ther is also a city process to follow--and a highly regulated design process.

There is roughly a total of $65K in committed money and in-kind donations lined up for the park project, but we will need about another $60K due to higher than anticipated design costs, and the extensive modeling process. So, we continue the attempt to raise funds, and with the help of Michael Duncan, our new executive fundraising director, we are targeting the Bohemian Foundation, and other grant opportunities, including the city's funding for special projects. We just need one more big check.

Our effort has taken actually about 8 YEARS now. Fort Collins just hasn't moved like other cities have in getting a whitewater park. Now they seem to be. They realize that competition exists for a residents and tax base in northern colorado. If you want to do some good, visit with your mayor, city council, and/or city manager and tell them how much we need the project. They seem to have some energy, but they are driven by public input--beyond just Friends of the Poudre. Write letters to the editor of the local media, and get involved with vocal support.

Yes, the RICD bill is a problem--but mainly in drought years. But the Fort Collins park is set up with a control structure at its head, which meets the requirement levied in the current bill. It could certainly limit flows, but if designed right, the park could work well. And, it hasn't been passed yet, which means the sooner we build it, the more protected our water is. And, unless you want to have no river in Fort Collin in the future, we can never give up the fight to get a better RICD.

THE REAL PROBLEM may be the proposed Glade Reservoir, which could siphon 10% of the river off during peak flows. So spend your time fighting mega dams, instead of wasting your breath on something you seem to not have the facts on.

I'll try to keep everyone better informed from here on out. My time is very short with two businesses, a young family, Friends of the Poudre, the river project, and other things--not including much recreation at this point. I'll bet mr cohen still has time to recreate!

Matt Evans
Downtown River Enhancement Committee
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Old 02-17-2006   #14
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 21
Touchy subject I guess....However it is nice to finally get some reliable solid information on the status of the park, even though this is what it took to get it. I'll admit I didn't know the issue of glade resevoir (and that is good to know), but for the most part my information was correct(even though the info. was a arithmatic mean of sketchy info. from past sources, most coming from M.S employees). I am sorry if Mr. Evans took it to offense that his integrety was called into question, but I believe the people who go to the fundraisers and donate to this great cause should have the right to know where there flow goes. I dont think that is to much to ask and I know that I dont speak for myself. Most avg. joes who paddle around town all say the same thing when asked "what is up the the Water park?" It has been very hard to get info, and yes I have emailed Mr. Evans before and didnt get very far. If there was somewhere where people could go to check the latest news on the project it would be alot easier. I know there is a link on the mountainshop websight for it (, but it has said the same thing for as long as I can remeber(a year, at least!). If this sight was up it would only create more support, I gaurentee it! It says nothing exept under construction(check it out). If this site was up, threads like this on mountainbuzz would never arise. I feal that if someone is going to take in public dollars for a project, then in-turn the public should know what the deal is. It doesn't matter how slow the progress, just as long as people are informed. Sometimes all it takes is a little conflict to make things happen, although this was not my agenda. This way you dont have people like me giving shotty info. to other people who want to know whats going on! Making me out to be the bad guy just isn't cool, I support this project just as much as the other guy and will contiue as long as I live in this city and hopefullly after. Its to bad it had to take all this to get some relliable info but...oh well... I guess that answers everyones questions. I appreaciate what Mr. Evans has taken on, and I dont think I could ever tackle such clusterf*#k like this myself. I dont think he should worry what people are thinking about him. I think we all greatly appreciate what he is is doing as has done, just let us know and we can appreciate it even more. But to assume how much time I have to recreate is slightly arragant if you ask me(but thats another issue). Am I out of line here or do I have a point? Thoughts?
Dont be a bunch of pusses, say what you think!
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Old 02-17-2006   #15
Lyons, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 256
Out of line for how you approached the subject and Not out of Line for asking the status. I have gotten tired of seeing all the torpedoing of people on this website. Don't forget, you may wind up paddling with someone you torpedo or have to be saved them in the river. The tactic of creating conflict to get the information you want is a damn poor way to show you "appreciation" for someone who is busting their balls (without any pay) to build a playpark so everyone can paddle on it. I know too well what Mr. Evans is tackling. Try being a little more pragmatic, it will go a long way! Try being part of the solution vs a critic.

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Old 02-17-2006   #16
Charc in = charc out
ToddG's Avatar
Seattle, Washington
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 475
I've been totally out of the mtbuzz loop lately, but someone alerted me to this thread & I felt compelled to post.

So, Cohen, I'll let you know what I think: check yourself, educate yourself, & then check yourself again.

Yeah, you are out of line. Publicly slamming someone who has VOLUNTEERED with little to no help from anyone else for many hours / many years to create something for the community-at-large & for northern colorado to be proud of? Bad style.

Educate yourself on public policy process (esp. the uphill battle of fighting for rec vs. CO's corpo-ag industrial agenda). Use your brain & use some TACT. You are a CSU student. Matt's business is located across the street from campus. How difficult would it be for you to stop by the shop & set up an appointment with him to discuss your issues instead of dropping bombs on mtbuzz? Your questions as to the status of the project are fair, but the way you handled the issue was JV.

I don't blame Matt for bristling when some random college kid publicly calls him out on an issue that's been an 8-year unpaid headache of a job. I'd bet he's been battling this issue for longer than you've even been a kayaker -- you should be thanking him instead of flaming him.
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Old 02-17-2006   #17
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 21
You have to expect and be able to tolerate a certain level of critisism when undertaking any project. Obviously it was not my intent to have things come to this, but if people could get info from the downtown river corridor enhancement project site, this would never of happend. You are absolutly right, tact is important.
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Old 02-17-2006   #18
Lyons, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 256
Why don't you offer to write (use spell check though) and help upload this info to the website. I am sure he would appreciate the help and be able to focus on something else.
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Old 02-17-2006   #19
Force's Avatar
Bham, Washington
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 463
sounds like a bad seed. maybe we should take him out back and beat him. that way we can keep all the dime bags to ourselves.
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Old 02-17-2006   #20
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 273
TG --Good to hear of you

Cohen you are a chode.

hey diddle diddle...
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