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Old 07-29-2010   #61
Hate Valley, No Tresspassing
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 11
My boating world has only gotten better by adding guns. My Buzz world is better for discussing them. What if we only hint at guns and some 10 year old thinks that is a fast way to learn a roll? See, huh? Proper tuck, roll shoot technique. You are not born with such things. Hmmm?

As it has been stated, please do not shoot a bear with a pussy ass small gun with me around. Aggressive dogs are welcome, I hope they give me an extra 5-10 seconds to scramble. Can be far more valuable than a gun (sounds good).

If we are not talking about things, can we add our babies, infants and puppies to the list?

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Old 07-30-2010   #62
Wavester's Avatar
NorCal, California
Paddling Since: 91
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 330
Bear Spay Works

I always strap a gat when boating on the MFS. You never know when you might have to bust a cap in a redneck like Carvedog, trying to steal your beer or women.
Actually the only river I have been on to date where a gun MIGHT have come in handy was on the Tat in Alaska but it also runs through Canada and it's very difficult to bring guns into Canada. But bear spray and bear bangers work great to encourage Grizzlies to move on. If that works in Alaska, then it should be more then adequate here in the lower 48. As far as rednecks....

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Old 07-30-2010   #63
WhiteLightning's Avatar
Eagle County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 928
Originally Posted by ZGjethro View Post
WL, the story about the slug going around the skull and exiting the other side is old second hand news. I have read other reports of AK rounds entering the helmets of Vietnam era door gunners helmets, zipping around the helmet, and going out the other side. Same story, different gun. PS, the .45 is about the slowest round out there, at about 835-850 fps for standard 230 gr ammo. Specialty ammo is another story. All the other info about hydrostatic shock etc is correct.
The story is first hand from involved officer.
It takes a big man to cry...It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.

-Jack Handy
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Old 07-30-2010   #64
WhiteLightning's Avatar
Eagle County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 928
Originally Posted by Marco Esquandolis View Post
Let me get this straight, your argument against a handgun is low muzzle velocity yet you are suggesting rifled slugs out of a shotgun? Rifled slugs out of a shotgun are also traveling extremely slow when compared to a rifle. So you are making a recommendation that goes entirely against your initial comments. Which is it Hot Fuzz?

.223 is not bear protection. It's not even really good human protection because they're going to see it coming and will probably shoot you first. It would be so incredibly irresponsible to shoot a bear with a small and light bullet that would almost certainly not kill it, only to have some unsuspecting person stumble upon that angry bear a day later. The only reason to carry on MFS or any other trips in MT/ID would be protection from humans and possibly to put down livestock that has become too injured to be removed from backcountry.

If you want bear protection get bear spray. If you think you'll need deadly force against bears most Alaskans will tell you to go no lighter than .44 MAG, or shotgun w/slugs preferably the latter. I am more concerned than ever thinking that some of the gapers on this forum are out there packing around ridiculously inappropriate weapons which they no doubt have absolutely no clue how to use or this topic wouldn't have come up in the first place.
You are correct, somewhat contradictory. The slugs are about an ounce of lead traveling a little faster than the .45, which makes for a pretty devestating setup. I wouldn't volunteer to get shot at by any of them.

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