I don't know... but it seems to me that if there are tubers out there who are fully decked out in wetsuits, PFDs, helmets and throw bags while they tube some Class V then they are FULLY aware of the dangers involved with what they are doing. Tubers who are in nothing more than a bathing suit tubing the Boulder Creek with a 6-pack strapped to the back of their tube now that seems like someone with no idea of the dangers involved. Some nay-sayers tell me that kayaking is stupid... how could it not be in their opinions, people die doing it every year, but that doesn't mean that we boaters are stupid. We just like to push the limits and LIVE life while we are here. Don't mean to side with tubers... I think they should hang up the rubber and get into the plastic, but let's be fair about who is unaware and who isn't.