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Old 06-02-2011   #11
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1492
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by richp View Post
Hi Landclau,

Given this is the Buzz, I don't suppose any of the replies so far are all that harsh (grin). But perhaps you didn't take into account the way your original post might have been interpreted by some folks.

The motor rig/rowing rig disparity may seem a disadvantage. I've done a trip like that and it really wasn't all that bad. However, others might not be attracted to the idea for a variety of reasons -- motor noise, difference in workload all day, wilderness ethic, etc.

But also importantly, people who have been down the Grand know that on a non-commercial trip, effort is usually required by all members of the group to make it work well. So prospective rowers for your trip would need some pretty solid assurances that possible workload disparities created by the age of some of the participants would not be problematic. I'm thinking in terms of how well children can be integrated into core activities like kitchen duty, groover duty, dish washing, loading and unloading boats, and so forth. Nobody on a private trip wants to feel like they are "crew" serving the rest of the group.

A final thought. Parents are quite willing to do all sorts of things to enrich the lives of their children -- and a GC river trip would absolutely fall into that category. But non-parents may not have the same priorities when sizing up possible participation.

At any rate, good luck on putting the trip together and finding the right folks to help.
Rich Phillips
Wow, Rich. You are far more tactful and diplomatic than I could ever hope to be. Perhaps 'compensation' was too harsh a word and I should have used 'special consideration' instead. I was inferring that since she is basically looking for boatslaves and additional nanny-hands AND setting parameters on who can be brought along and how much partying can occur, I was wondering if she was offering to 'allow' someone to row a baggage boat with a passenger and perhaps not have to pay for their share of the trip..... a fair tradeoff for having to spend 18 days in the Canyon picking up after kids that don't belong to you. Any Grand trip is a lot of work, and being stuck with those parameters and restrictions makes it more work than it's worth.....FWIW.......

So many rivers, so little time..........
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Old 06-02-2011   #12
St George, Utah
Paddling Since: 1974
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 48
Landclau, I might be able to pull off this trip. I have a full work load Fri but will try to fit a call to you in.my number is 435-705-4239.Hope to be through with meetings around 6:15 MST I will also contact a buddy that has 60 plus GC trips

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Old 06-02-2011   #13
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portland, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,188
Hey I've been a much bigger river whore for much less. If only my arm didn't require surgery and my boss such a prick
Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it "guaranteed", I will. I got spare time.
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Old 06-03-2011   #14
Missoula, Montana
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 71
not shortage of whiners here. Landclau gave details about the trip, set forth the crieteria
for the kind of boatmen they are looking for and simply asked for volunteers. If that's not your cup of tea, then shut the hell up and don't jump down her throat about compesnsation or leaping to the conclusion that you are being asked to be a boat slave. There is nothing wrong with keeping your mouth shout if you are not interested in the trip. If I could swing the time off, I'de volunteer in a heart beat.
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Old 06-03-2011   #15
lhowemt's Avatar
at my house, Montana
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,347

Yes, as Rich says, welcome to the Buzz. Please ignore those posts that don't really respond to your request, it is the internet after all and the Buzz is moderately childish often (myself included at times).

I recommend you try other groups, where there's less internet flaming going on, and you might find someone to fit your bill. Heck, I've heard of motor trips where the motor rig carried almost all of the gear, and if I could just stay away from it (noise, stink), I might like it! But you didn't specify why you need this oarsperson, will the boat have gear, other people, etc?

You'll find someone, it's harder to find non-partying trips than the other way around so there's likely some folks that fit your trip perfectly, but they probably aren't on the Buzz.

Try the Yahoo groups GCPBA, Idaho Whitewater, Utah Rafters, rafting grand canyon. Have fun!
I am a river, babe - I've got plenty of time, I don't know where I'm going, I'm just following the lines..... - "We are water" by Shaye
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Old 06-03-2011   #16
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883

In order to just possibly motivate someone, I'll give you my positive motor/rowing trip experience.

Two 20' Jacks cats -- one with a 20 hp Honda and the other (me, the old geezer) rowing. We had 24 days to South Cove, with four or five layover days. Steady flows in the 8k range as I recall.

The Honda idled most of the time, and just drifted shut down quite a bit as well. When I was more than 25-30 yards away, the only way I could tell he was running it was visually -- by the cooling water stream I could see coming out the back. Sure, he gunned it in the rapids to position himself, but you couldn't hear it anyway because of the sound of the water. He did the whole 298 miles on 8 gallons of fuel, so you know he couldn't have been using the motor all that aggressively.

And quite frankly, I didn't work all that hard. I pushed easily most of the time, pulled a while every now and then to keep myself limber for the rapids, and often drifted as well.

Moral to the story. If you and the motor operator understand in advance how the trip will be run and the pace required, and don't have a philosophical problem with motors, this kind of hybrid trip can be quite workable.

Laura is right on about posting in other locations as well, to expand the universe of possible participants.


Rich Phillips

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