Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-27-2011   #11
yakkeranna's Avatar
Canberra, OZ
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 168
Climate change will amplify the hydrologic cycle- some places will get more precip, some will get less... and weather patterns (especially in a La Nina year) don't prove/disprove long term trends. Also, there is a carbon equation, it's called a mass balance.

yakkeranna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011   #12
Roy's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 682
Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
But the carbon equation is misinterpreted if you ask me.
OK. I'm asking you. How, exactly, is the "carbon equation" misinterpreted? Please show your work...

I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied...learn to swim!
Roy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011   #13
Bayou's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 198
As an Earth Scientist I am ready and willing to answer any reasonable questions on this topic.

Caspermike, yes, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has been a cause of global warming and cooling trends for millions of years. If the industrial revolution never existed, would Earth's global temperature be rising right now? The answer is yes... but at a much lower rate. To act as if burning fossil fuels at the rate we have for the past 250 years isn't having some control over the accelerated rate of global temperature is just naive.

Let's have a look at CO2 levels over the last 10,000 years:

That graph was taken from the International Panel on Climate Change 4 (2007). They have received some criticism recently but by and large their work is accepted globally as the standard right now.

And let me clear the air about something else: global warming does not mean increased temperatures everywhere... due to continental land masses, ocean currents, and atmospheric circulation, temperature and precipitation patterns are different based on geography (most importantly latitude, elevation, and proximity to an ocean, to name a few). Currently, all major deserts are expanding their footprint and ~95% of glaciers are diminishing (a few anomalous ones in Patagonia and Greenland are increasing). Don't believe me? Go visit Glacier National Park in 25 years. There won't be any "glaciers" left to walk on. But I'm getting off track...

High snowfall in one season does not contribute to the snowpack unless it remains through the warmer summer months without melting. Where do these situations exist? IN GLACIERS. Valley glaciers make up all of the glaciers in the continental US. Valley glaciers are the ones that are disappearing right now.

So let's recap:
1) CO2 levels are increasing many times faster than they typically do due to human fossil fuel consumption
2) Glaciers are disappearing
3) Snowfall only contributes to snowpack where glaciers exist

Conclusion: No glaciers = no snowpack. Even anomalously high snowfall will not reverse the trend of global warming. Using a few years of above average snowfall data to dismiss a trend that has been accelerating for centuries is just plain stupid.

Also: I agree with everyone mentioning the urbanization of deserts (US Southwest) is a ridiculous and unsustainable practice.
Fluvial Geomorphology Blog
Bayou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011   #14
Bayou's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 198
To prove my point even further, how about we extend the data set further back than 10,000 years...

How about 400,000 years?

Here's data from a Russian ice core drilled in Antarctica.

**note that the "present" in chart is 1950 and that CO2 is since risen to ~380 ppm.**

So, yea, there is a clear periodicity to the CO2 levels in the atmosphere that humans are not responsible for... but these trends cannot account for the increase we've seen in the last century.
Fluvial Geomorphology Blog
Bayou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011   #15
FrankC's Avatar
Golden, CO
Paddling Since: 1856
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 339
Do you seriously think this guy is going to read scientific data? He probably get all his "information" from the likes of Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hanity. The ultra conservatives do not base their beliefs on facts and logic. BTW - I wonder what effect beetle killed forests will have on the runoff?
FrankC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011   #16
Bayou's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2009
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 198
Not too sure about the forests destroyed by beetles right now.

The USGS and Forest Service are conducting soil erosion studies right now in some places, but I don't know if it's beetle-related. I know there is work being done in the Pinyon/Juniper regions near Monticello, Utah. They're trying to get a better handle on how soil erosion changes when an ecosystem shifts from Pinyon/Juniper dominated to Sagebrush dominated (a trend happening in a lot of places in the Colorado Plateau). Really cool work I got to help out a bit on when I was with the BLM.
Fluvial Geomorphology Blog
Bayou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011   #17
scooby450's Avatar
Mesa, Arizona
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 259
Let's face it. we're f@cked! I live in the desert and hate it! Wish I could get out (Idaho) but I got a paying job here that I will not give up during this economic situation.

All I really got to say is, "Fuck it, lets go bowling, er, boating"

Hey Rip, maybe I hit on the new MB slogan!
Whether U Think U Can, or Think U Can't; U R Right!
scooby450 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011   #18
bobbuilds's Avatar
x, x
Paddling Since: x
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,634
Originally Posted by El Flaco View Post

BLAM! Spanish snow!
I fuckin' died.......................... oh my god, i fuckin laughed...
bobbuilds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011   #19
mountains, Colorado
Paddling Since: '92
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 418
Originally Posted by glenn View Post
Still ignoring the elephant in the room of overpopulation in deserts is pretty silly.
Interesting...overpopulation is only a problem in the desert. Talk about ignoring the elephant.
caseybailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011   #20
glenn's Avatar
BZN, Montana
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,489
Originally Posted by caseybailey View Post
Interesting...overpopulation is only a problem in the desert. Talk about ignoring the elephant.
Yep that too. Per the article though, my point was supply is the only half of the issue ever discussed.

glenn is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's gonna run from this storm? kayakfreakus Whitewater Kayaking 8 11-02-2009 02:41 PM
Enjoy your bootie beer possumturd Whitewater Kayaking 2 08-19-2009 08:03 PM
BIG heads up on Bailey... It's gonna be a dangerous run for some time... thecraw River Access & Safety Alerts! 25 08-15-2009 09:59 PM
Creeks in NM are gonna run this year atom Whitewater Kayaking 10 01-25-2007 09:11 PM
Christmas Contest on LP...check it out and enjoy. skywalker Whitewater Kayaking 1 12-21-2004 07:17 PM

» Classified Ads
Liquidlogic El Jefe

posted by CFriday

2008 LiquidLogic El Jefe. Stopped paddling in 2008, been...

2016 Dagger Nomad...

posted by atom

2016 Dagger Nomad LG Used as intended but tons of life...

Jackson SuperStar

posted by bodhizafa

Jackson Superstar kayak, black color. In ok condition. ...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.