View Poll Results: Does central Colorado need more wilderness?
Yes. We need to protect these areas. 66 70.21%
No. We have enough land that is already designated. 27 28.72%
I do not care because I sit at home and surf the buzz all day 1 1.06%
I care, but am to lazy to do anything about it. 0 0%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-07-2009   #151
I kayak DH.
Waterwindpowderrock's Avatar
Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 794
Originally Posted by hotchkiss View Post
"A hiker without a clue or a care can be worse than a responsible ATV rider."

That's the most ridiculous thing anyone has said on this thread. Irresponsible, dishonest, inflaming comments like that are EXACTLY the reason these types of threads are reduced to personal attacks.

This is such a stupid statement I can't help but think you're being sarcastic, but based on your previous threads...
You just don't get it.

Where I ride (snowmobile) there is a hiker lot & a sledder lot. It's just up the road from my house so I send a lot of time keeping the area clean. In the dirty nasty snomobilers lot, well, I don't have to clean up, there's no crap on the ground. In the hikers lot I find batteries (Great for the environment) nearly EVERY week, food wrappers, and other junk all the time. If you don't understand why there is a difference between a person that cares & a moron of ANY user type you should crawl back under that rock & wait for some 'yotes to come by so ya can shoot at 'em.

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Old 09-07-2009   #152
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Pejivalle, Costa Rica
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Posts: 188
First off, I don't believe any of what you are saying is true. I don't believe you are being even slightly honest about what you see at trailheads.

Regardless of whether you are a liar or not- and you are- I simply can't believe you're actually making the claim, "them darn hikers iz ulways litrn n tashen da plase. Damn anti-enviros needa falla da zample uh du modorcyklers. We'z da reel 'leeve no trasers!"

I'm done with this thread so I'm just going to say it, you're full of shit. Beyond your dishonest disposition is the idiocy of your claims. Let me get this right, what you are saying is that a Powerbar wrapper leaves a larger carbon footprint than a motorcycle tearing up ground for miles upon miles upon miles upon miles upon miles upon miles upon miles on public land?

That picture on your profile is proof you've landed on your head. What you write is proof you're retarded.

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Old 09-07-2009   #153
I kayak DH.
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Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
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Posts: 794
Wow, no personal attacks there.

Get out of Kansas for a while & you might see that the average Subaru driving freeheeler isn't the envirogod you think they are. (I own a Subie too, but you get the idea)

Ok, eliminate the Sledders from the mix. Head up to the top of Berthoud pass & look shut the fuck up.
I don't have to lie, the junk is all over the place, get off your ass & come pick up some trash instead of yapping on here & calling people retarded liars.
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Old 09-23-2009   #154
Down by the River, Idaho
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The Durango Telegraph - The independent weekly line on Durango and Beyond

Thought this had some interesting points......
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Old 09-23-2009   #155
Longmont, Colorado
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Originally Posted by boatmusher View Post

In a round about way yes. This is more directed at enforcing existing laws, it's a pretty important part of OHV management. It's sad but the reality is that most people think that if no one is looking that they can break any law they want to, this applies to all social classes in just about any situation in life, not just OHV's.

This was a very one sided take on the issue, it's sad to see this type of reporting, we've already covered that here though.
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Old 10-08-2009   #156
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 2007
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wow... i read about half of this thread and can't bring myself to read the rest. i am amazed at how many people won't budge from their extreme p.o.v and look for a solution that's a compromise. i personally don't enjoy riding dirtbikes but i'm not about to condemn and belittle those who do. i've shared many campsites with riders and they are for the most part not the ignorant redneck parasite they've been made out to be by some on this site. just like most environmentally conscious individuals aren't crazed liberal enviro-nazis. unfortunately the two extremes yell the loudest and the longest. i'm certain there is a middle of the road solution to this wilderness problem if both sides would listen to each other and respect another's p.o.v.
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Old 05-28-2010   #157
Foco/Red Cliff (Vail), Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
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Posts: 66
I read part of this thread but couldn't make it through all of it.

I am against the Hidden Gems proposal. I have grew up in these areas, I ride mountain bikes, I kayak, raft, hike, hunt, fish, camp and yes ride my snowmobile in these areas. The Red Sandstone area (Piney) is an area that would be lablelled wilderness, this is an area that we ride in a lot, our snowmobile club grooms up there, we maintain the area, why are they targeting this area? Our club is a Colorado State Parks club (CSA). We get state money to groom, and many use our trail system. With that said, the riding in these areas is not about trail riding. Riding in the West and in the Mountains has NEVER been about trails, it is about riding the steep and deep.

Over the snow travel is different than over the ground/dirt travel. Snowmobiles do not cause soil erosion, they are cleaner burning than most people give them credit for, they get cleaner every year, they have to. I have been riding in areas that my grandfather used to ride in, I have been hunting these same areas. Hidden Gems is a basically a private land grab. You have one group who is excluding several other groups and taking public land for their own.

With that said, I understand some hate for motorized users. When I ride and come up on skiers, snowshoers,etc, I slow down, wave and move to the side. I have been that skier, actually even been on a snowmobile stopped to the side and have had another snowmobiller, blast past me at lightening speeds. It pisses me off, but it is not fair to think everyone is the same. I have also witnessed a member of my family get off a sled and beat the $hit out of a cross country skier who as we drove past, slowly waiving at them, seemed to think it would be funny to hit him in the head with a ski pole. I will bet he doesn't do that again (ever try and fight while you are strapped into ski bindings). The point I am making is that it is not what a person is riding, the sport they are in that makes them a certain type of person, it comes down to integrity. You have it or you don't.

With that said, I am about protecting our beautiful state, but I am not willing to give up my rights to ride, play, hike, hunt, fish, camp in my state in order to protect them. The Forest Service is against making these areas wilderness. They are the ones paid to manage it. We have gone this far and in all honesty we have done well. We have some beautiful areas. Most of these areas are in NO DANGER of being developped. The area that are being developped are private land or mining claims, both of which will still be excluded from Wilderness designation. (please excuse the spelling).
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Old 05-28-2010   #158
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Denver, Colorado
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Originally Posted by boatmusher View Post
Wilderness is not about our recreation. In fact, it is about trying to leave something relatively untouched by human. The larger the wilderness the more likely there will be pockets of it that are seldom if ever seen by humans. As hard as it may be to comprehend, there are things in this world that are more important than our horses, our mountain bikes, our atv, our dirt bike and yes even our bull dozer. We as the "higher species" our entrusted with being stewards of the land. It is our job to protect the unprotected. It was our predecessors that nearly wiped out wolves, grizzlies, and bison. They also drove the elk from the plains to hiding out in the mountains, as well nearly destroyed, more than is conscioubaly, countless enviromental homes for many other species. Do we want to be the generation who followed in the foot steps of the earlier 19th century jack asses that thought nothing about the impact they had when they slaughtered, butchered and harvested whatever they wanted and could care less what they left us?

Therefore, we must set aside land not for the priority of our enjoyment. Rather, the enjoyment and survival of the rest of our natural world. Is nothing to be untouched by humans? Has anyone ever been to Europe? We cetainly do not want to live in a place where no stone has not been touched at some point by a human.

There is more to being here in Colorado, the US, and in our entire world than simply wanting or feeling we have the right do whatever we want regardless of the effects of our actions. We have to step back and see what is right for our environment not just our enjoyment. There are bigger things out there than our immediate self-gratification.

Not saying all of the mentioned activities don't have a place. They do! However, the more wilderness we have and the more we protect, the more we will have a truly wild place. And most importantly we will then always have a beautiful place to escape when we need a break from the world of concrete and glass.

Isn't that what WILDerness is? A place that is wild?
That is a GREAT post.
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Old 05-28-2010   #159
Foco/Red Cliff (Vail), Colorado
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Originally Posted by NolsGuy View Post
That is a GREAT post.

Yeah it is a good point but the problem is that Hidden Gems proposed wilderness is trying to make areas wilderness that are not untouched. Several of their areas, have pipelines already running through them, they have roads running through them, they have huge chunks of private property in them. Sorry but these areas to me are not pristine, nor do they deserve to be called wilderness.

On top of that designating these areas wilderness would make it near impossible to deal with forest fires. It is only a matter of time before Colorado has a major forest fire because of all the beetle bite pine. No chainsaws would be allowed, no motorized access to fight fires, etc. You wouldn't be allowed to clear out large beetle bite areas. (edit, you couldn't use motors of anykind to fight or prevent fires without a congressional vote).
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Old 05-28-2010   #160
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They won't be happy until they pave the entire $%#ing thing !

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