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Old 04-25-2006   #11
Ft Collins, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 198

I have a Diesel 65 and really like it. It's not be the best choice for serious class 5, but it's great for runs like Bailey, Gore, Narrows, Joe Wright, Spencer Heights, etc. It seems to be as fast as an RPM, but much more stable and without the edges. Rolls easily. Like any boat, it took me a few trips to get used to it. It surfs reasonably well (hey, it's not a play boat!) and is really comfortable. The Diesel is noticably lighter than the H3 and you can probably use the same skirt as your other boats (the H3 requires a larger skirt than the EZG). I went through pretty much the same process in looking for a boat last year - you might want to check out the relative weights of the boats, skirt size, and how comfortable you are in the boat. I'm 150 and the 65 is just right for my weight.

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Old 04-25-2006   #12
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 57
as far as i know the M:3 is going away but..... pyranha is making a boat to replace it, so if you can wait tell next year to get a new creekboat i would.

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Old 04-25-2006   #13
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
I am going to disagree with Basil as well. The Diesel has INCREDIBLE secondary stability. I don't have any problems boofing this boat, and the actual hull is not that wide. If you look at how the sidewall steps in you will see that by the time it gets to the hull it is actual quite narrow, which helps it pivot more like a playboat.

I do agree that the Diesel is not a "creeker only type-of-boat", but isn't that why it fits a wide range of paddlers? If you are a "gnar" boater then, yes, maybe you are so hardcore that you do need the characteristics of the "true creek boat."

Treewell--For the type of runs you described the Diesel would work very well.
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Old 04-25-2006   #14
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 79
Thanks for all the suggestions. Definitely want to demo the Diesel and Burn.

Haven't seen many comments here or elsewhere about the Super Hero. Looks interesting but kind of pointy. Has anyone paddled it on smaller creeks? Looks like it would be a great big water boat. How about quick eddy turns on smaller creeks?
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Old 04-25-2006   #15
Cody, Wyoming
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 260
I recently got back from a trip to Idaho and boated the Lochsa, Boulder Creek and Fish Creek and I boated the Hero and Rocker and I thought both were great boats. The Hero surfs great and turns into eddy's like it's on rails. You just point the boat to the eddy and it slices in nice and smooth and fast. It's very stable and when we ran Boulder creek and Fish creek they were really juicing and i felt very stable and confident in hitting my lines and cathing eddy's. The Rocker is a great full on creek boat and it literally takes no time to get used to. I was sitting in an eddy above one of the bigger rapids in Boulder creek and I was a bit nervous since I literally had one stroke out of the eddy to get used to the boat and it felt good immediately. It sounds to me like the Hero would be a better choice for you and I would demo a hero before buying anything else plus you get a cross link boat. Also the foot braces are very nice and easilly adjustable and you can really get this boat to fit nice and tight like a play boat.

My two cents!

Aaron Mulkey
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Old 04-25-2006   #16
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7
H2...H3...Diesel...Burn vs. displacement

its an interesting evolution -

Some folks still wanting more displacement hull creek boats - similar to the Micros and others - or semi -displacement.

The onset of the H2 - then H3 - Diesel - and Now Burn - folks enjoying a bit more responsiveness - and hull speed.

So what is the preference these days - edge or no edge - or semi Edge.

Not sure if jackson has its oats yet in this category. Ask Clay - i gather.

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