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Old 09-25-2006   #1
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1
Diesel vs. Scud?

I have an EZG 50, and want to get into creeking. These two boats have been recomended...Any thoughts?

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Old 09-26-2006   #2
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
Those two boats are very different. The Scud isn't a beginner-creekers boat because it is very short and made for being able to freestyle in it as well. As you learn to creek you want a boat that is fast and will rarely cartwheel.

A Diesel is a better choice, but it isn't a creek boat by definition. It has edges so it does great on big water and deep creeks, but poor for really shallow creeks (like what we have here in CO). This is why they are coming out with the Habitat creek boat. Less edgy, and generally better for Colorado Creeks.

I paddle an M3, and I love it. Small enough to be easy to move around, but plenty of volume where it is needed. Accelerates and carves fast.

Demo a lot. Get the CKS catalog for clarification on some of the differences in boat design and what it means to you...

Kyle McCutchen
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Old 09-26-2006   #3
California Canoe and Kayak Oakland California
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Old 09-26-2006   #4
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 35
Anyone have experience with the H3? How does it paddle/compare to diesel and how would it be for CO creeking? What are some other good boats for the shallower creeks?
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Old 09-26-2006   #5
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,302
The h3 and the newer burn are similair to the Deisel in the fact that all of these boats have edges. This isn't a bad thing, as I prefer a kayak with a little bit of edge, because they carve in and out of eddies better (an M3 although rounded, is more edgy than say a Jefe) and they hold a line better (ie track).

Edges work great when the water is generally pretty deep, in places like Bailey, Gore, Blackrock, and Durango Creeks where the channels are deep. Edges are less than desirable in very rocky runs like SSV, NSV, Silverplume to Georgetown, WF Clear Creek, etc.

If you plan to run more of the first list, or big water in general, than the H3, Burn, and Diesel are all good boats. If you think that at some point you will be grinding over wet rocks because SSV is so fun, then a more rounded boat like the M3, Jefe, or Habitat will better fit your needs.
Kyle McCutchen
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Old 09-28-2006   #6
Bozeman, MT
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 106
I agree with Cutch, A round boat if you want to do steep creeks with crucial moves and drops. The edges can get hung up if you pin balling down runs. On the other hand, I used to paddle an H3, and it was a perfect first creek boat, because the transition from playboat was not very drastic. The flatter bottom and rails did wonders. It is a great Colorado boat for runs like gore and fishcreek, (bump and grind creeks) . I remember trying other full on creekers when I was interested in my first creek boat, and the transition was harsh, they all felt like logs, very hard to turn, and get into those eddies. Once i started doing steep stuff with drops i was interested in the round bottom and it's forgiving character on drops, and predictable resurfacing. I now rock an M3, which i love. It's a full on creeker, but has more of an edge than other boats like the nomad, etc. Happy boating!

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