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Old 07-20-2006   #21
Summit County, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 27
I'm not sure if there are any officially "endangered" fish up there- it seems that the Division of Wildlife is concerned about "dwindling native populations", which means they will likely become threatened or endangered soon.

ESA listings are long processes- generally about eighty percent of species that are proposed for listing are extinct before they are even officially declared "endangered". Therefore, we have to jump the gun on species that could be proposed for listing soon. I'm actually really impressed that DoW is on top of the issue at this stage.

"Hey, put your tongue on that." (Chair 7, Big Mtn.)
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Old 07-20-2006   #22
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 405
Denver Water takes about 80% of the water out of my local river. Therefore, of the 3 seasons I've been here, I've only been able to scrape down it 2 times. My understanding is that the decreased flow also results in harm to the fish due to temp. increase of the remaining shallow water as well as a simple loss of habitat.

My guess is that many of the "fish protectors" have a nicely watered lawn, flush down many gallons of water every time they piss, and aren't out there boycotting golf couses. If they did, maybe there'd be water in my backyard river (with happy fish), and I wouldn't have to drive 1.5 hours to the nearest whitewater park (where I see people catching fish all the time anyhow). Big, fat, healthy fish.

And who said rivers with class IV rapids have no fish anyhow? The best fishing rivers in the state have serious rapids that fish can't pass!

Stop wasting your time when someone wants to put a couple of waves and eddies in the river (which is more or less natural), and start advocating water conservation! The fish would like that. All wildlife would like that. And I'm tired of watching my local run be drained dry every time you water your lawn and wash your car.

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Old 07-20-2006   #23
Summit County, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 27
It's okay, everyone thinks everyone else's job is worthless. Apparently, the current adminstration agrees with you and is trying to shut down many environmental fisheries branches around the country, including ours.

For the record, though, I don't even own a car.
"Hey, put your tongue on that." (Chair 7, Big Mtn.)
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Old 07-20-2006   #24
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 388
Jennifer, I take it you are in the Fraser valley. Yea, it's a bummer how the rivers are drained dry there. I have sympathy for you, but I can I play with your post a bit by offering the following comments:

Please have pitty on me for having to live on the front range. Lot's of things suck here. And I have a small lawn. Yes, I water it so my kids and the neighbor's kids can play on it. They don't have any place else to play. Yes, I poop and use the toilet. It's a low flush toilet. They don't work well. No, I don't golf.

I am a person, as you are. I need to use water, as you do. If I lived where you are, would you begrude me the use of the water? Water usage per person doesn't vary that much by location. And there are lots of golf courses in the mountains and the west slope. Do you protest those?

By the way, 80% of the water taken out of the Colorado rivers are used by west-slope farmers. Of the remaining 20% that is diverted to the east slope, 80% of that is used by east slope farmers (Granby & the Ark is mostly for farmers, and that's a lot of water!). You notice the east slope diversions more because it is taken out higher up. Have you seen all the farmers just flood their fields to grow hay? Quite a waste. For some reason, their cost of water is 20-50 times less than my cost.

5% of the state's water is used for urban use. Unfortunately, that 5% comes from where you live. I agree it is a shame.

I wish I could live where you do.
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Old 07-21-2006   #25
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 405
cstork, I've never watered a blade of grass (I have rocks and sucullents with my field of dandelions), and I have the dirtiest car in the valley. I flush my low flow toilet every time I poop, but only after every 4 pees (unfortunately for the houseguests). I protest the watering of lawns everywhere, even in the mountains where most lawns can grow ok without watering anyhow. I don't expect everyone to be as water consious as me, I am just tired of the hipocracy. I don't remember the average water consumption per person per year, but if someone could shed some light on that and then talk about the problems a few waves and eddies would cause to some fish, that would be great.

And by the way, if the water is taken out at its very source, it seems like it is a bit more harmful to the fish, then letting it flow down a ways before sucking it dry.
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Old 07-21-2006   #26
Summit County, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 27
That's great, jennifer, and I commend your water conservation measures. Everyone should be as water concious as you are. It would be a great improvement if eveyone would reduce their water usage. However, conservation isn't the only issue in this case.

I understand that it doesn't make sense - "I see lots of fish," "Waves are natural". It's just like anything else- sometimes you have to be in the field, have studied this exact topic your entire life, and work on it nonstop to get the full understanding of its impact. It may seem minor and unimportant to you, but that's the point. If there were no fish anywhere and the river had gone to hell, everyone would be saying, "Where are the fisheries people? Why didn't they do anything about this?!"

There are lots of other things people should be doing as well-- reducing driving, reducing water pollution, water conservation, planting trees, we could go on and on and on.... The point is, someone asked about fish ladders, and with it being my exact specialty, I offered what I know. I wasn't meaning to imply that a fish ladder negates the need for water conservation. I apologize if it sounded that way.
"Hey, put your tongue on that." (Chair 7, Big Mtn.)
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Old 07-21-2006   #27
salida, Colorado
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 283
what about showering? after every four swims????
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Old 07-21-2006   #28
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Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 580
Speaking of water conservation, I can't believe that the national average is 50 to 100 gallons per day per person! I just moved to a new place where my family of four uses approximately 50 gallons per week (or 1.79 gallons per day per person)! We shower and wash dishes. I never feel like I have a water shortage, I use all that I need and usually we have some extra we dump into a stock tank for the kids to cool off in. If you are interested in our systems, I can tell you more. We do have a composting toilet and a gray water system.

I guess the hyprocracy is that I work for the Bureau of Reclamation!

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