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Old 09-02-2009   #31
Riparian's Avatar
Little Village, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,350
Canada - you make valid points, but can't we go after Mr. C? I mean, the guy invited me to go bowling! I'm visualizing a Dude-Walter-Donny bowling alley scene unfolding, and that just scares the bejesus outta me! Could make a good movie, however...

Uh, I'm just gonna go find a cash machine.
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Old 09-02-2009   #32
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 1985
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 700
Can't let a softball fly by with swinging

Mike, even you have to recognize the irony of your post.

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Old 09-02-2009   #33
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Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
canada ill defend my self. not a push over brother. don't care what your mom thinks. ohh yeah going kayaking tonight. not complaing in a new post about buzzards being buzzards. and ohh yeah i don't care about the pitty shit cause it aint going to change the world.
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Old 09-02-2009   #34
Kendo's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 155
way of the walk!

Basics of LIfe:
Not everybody plays fair, but its NOT a matter of what craft your in or where you boat...
Its the Golden rule, give respect to get respect, I was raised with siblings in a military family....learned this early in life....if someone asks or needs my help, I am inclined to help... infact most usually I want to help.. I think some people on this site find it easy to be rude to people, then come up with alot of excuses and say that they were helping the rest of the community... perhaps its due to the anonimity of being behind a computer screen and not face to face... (remember you kiss your momma with that mouth, or touch your gilr with those fingers-haha)if that was the case, lets just try and redirect what your saying by loosing the attitude and the cursing. who doesnt respond to criticism well if its put out there with tact..

Lets throw out a life saver instead of concrete boots!

also lets try and have a sense of humor too- its needed to get through the blah blah BS that some here have to offer- sometimes they do have something to offer its just harder to see!

even if i dont like you i`ll try and save you!
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Old 09-02-2009   #35
Matt J's Avatar
Leadvillian, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 381
welcome to the off season

at least you have plenty of time to think about it while you wait for the snow

to fall


fall some more

then melt.

the buzz is as the buzz does

a microcosm of a community that has grown in number

which inevitably represents a drop in the average quality.

see you on the river!
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Old 09-02-2009   #36
nowhere, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
canada ill defend my self. not a push over brother. don't care what your mom thinks. ohh yeah going kayaking tonight. not complaing in a new post about buzzards being buzzards. and ohh yeah i don't care about the pitty shit cause it aint going to change the world.

you sound like a middle schooler....i'll defend myself blah blah blah...nothing more than a concern troll are u...
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Old 09-02-2009   #37
mountains, Colorado
Paddling Since: '92
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 418
Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
canada ill defend my self. not a push over brother. don't care what your mom thinks. ohh yeah going kayaking tonight. not complaing in a new post about buzzards being buzzards. and ohh yeah i don't care about the pitty shit cause it aint going to change the world.
This is awesome. Did you get a badge with your uniform?
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Old 09-02-2009   #38
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Wolcott, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 432
Is it offeason? Gore! This aggression will not stand! Gore! Can't we all just get along and run Gore?
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Old 09-02-2009   #39
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Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,032
The original post was observing that: a) the buzz has gotten more aggressive and elitist and b) this is reflected on the water as well in the form of lack of respect for other boaters, unwillingness to help, lack of patience and mentorship.

I suspect this perception is a combination of a bit of truth and bit of fog in the mirror.

The truth:
It was before I started boating, but when the boating population was smaller in the 90s, it seems very likely that the community was tighter and as such there were fewer miscreants and more of a bond between boaters. This surely is just a function of community size and I probably don't need to elaborate.

Another factor you might consider, which also falls under truth, is I suspect the subsection of boaters that you associate with have changed. As I've started spending more time on harder runs, I've noticed a change in the boaters. I don't think it's because the culture has changed in the 6 years I've been boating. It's because the crowd attracted to Filter Plant is quite a bit different than the crowd going to The Big South. For one, the latter have much better abs and pecs (maybe I should take up hand paddling...). But also, people running class V tend to be a bit more intense and more inclined to push themselves and others. There is also a practical aspect to that. Running class II/III you can feel pretty safe running with most anyone and know you'll be helping to collect gear, but not having to worry a lot of about the safety of you and your partners. When you're running class V, you often don't want to find yourself apart of a sh-t show that can place you and others in serious harm or be a witness to something horrible. This lends itself to people being more discriminating about who they boat with on the river on harder runs. In fact, when I've been back to the play park, I see a lot of the old helpful, encouraging, fun loving attitude that I used to see more of on the class III runs.

The Fog:
Besides the tendency to remember "the good old days", I doubt there was ever an internet forum that you could call civil. I wonder though, if the current state of the buzz or on the river is really as bad as people say. Can anyone point me to a thread where someone was pumped about their trip down Filter Plant or their favorite class II/III run and they got ragged on for enjoying an easy run? I've haven't seen it and I spend too much time on here. Most of the "I'm cooler than you because I run better class V" talk I see going around tends to be amongst people who are friends and are just talking sh-t with each other. I suspect a lot of that is being misconstrued because others don't realize that they know each other and are joking around.

I would also point out that a lot of the biggest sh-t talkers on this site seem to be people that I know were around in the 90s and it's hard for me to imagine they saints back then.

This year I've had people show me down runs for my first time and I've shown others down for their first time. I've experienced random groups helping out people in other groups on the river collecting gear, extracting a pinned boater, etc. Camaraderie on the river is still alive and well though it may not be as ubiquitous one would like.

Last winter I was driving downtown and stopped at a stop sign. I see a guy walking across the street in front of me and I notice it's the illustrious Joe Keck, who never remembers me, but that's another story. He glanced at my car and when he sees the stackers on the roof he does a double take, presumably to see if he recognizes the driver. I wave and he waves back. Now what are that chances that would happen if someone sees a bike rack on top of the car?
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Old 09-02-2009   #40
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Teacher, Fort Collins, Colorado
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 251
Originally Posted by deepsouthpaddler View Post
I get a kick out of the "back in the day" reminicsing. Seems like the human brain has some sort of weird wiring so that we tend to selectively remember the good things about the past, and we all seem to think that things were the best when we were 15-25 yrs old, not matter what things were actually objectively like at the time.
Well put--you sound like the modern incarnation of Friedrich Schiller (check out "On Naive and Sentimental Poetry"), but in a boat and without a powder wig. He basically said this same thing over 200 years ago. Er, I mean "back in the good 'ol days."


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