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Old 09-17-2004   #41
thecraw's Avatar
Boulder, Jackson Kayak, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
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After this...not much more needs to be said.

I am neither republican nor democrat. My only concern is to ensure that we have a leader that can think for himself (which is obviously in serious question) and represent the things that the American people vote for him to do...

Everyone has an off day, but for crying out loud!!! When is there enough evidence to convince at least every American that there is a total dunce at the helm of the Free World.

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. But rather...To skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... WOW !!!! What a ride!!!!!!"
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Old 09-17-2004   #42
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Systems & Process Design, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 196
"So here we gather... the haves and the have mores... some call you the elite... I call you my base." This is a quote from George W. Bush at a fund raising event.

Open your eyes folks... Bush is looking out for the wealthy... not the common Joe that 90% of us are.

Like others... I am also shocked at how many Bush supports use this web site. It honestly blows me away. I am neither a Republican or a Democrat... I just think Bush is the worst thing to ever happen to America.

These are the hard facts we are living with under the Bush administration:

- We have more poverty
- We have fewer jobs
- We have lower paying jobs
- We have a tax code that encourages job outsourcing
- We have more enemies
- There are more terrorists with a real reason to hate us
- We have fewer allies
- We have an environment at risk(including our rivers)
- We have a record deficit
- We have a record number of people w/o health insurance
- We are in a war we can not win(read the latest intelligence report on the future of Iraq)
- We are in that war because of lies and bad information
- We are spending more resources on this war than fighting Al Qaeda

The things that might be considered debatable about Bush are:

- his military record
- his alcoholic past
- his cocaine use
- he has hijacked Christianity for his own political purposes
- his intelligence
- his honesty
- his relationship with the Saudis
- his relationship with Enron execs
- his true motivation for going into Iraq
- his arrogance

If we debated these items and came out 50/50... there would be too many things wrong with Bush to re-elect him... not that he was elected in the first place.

Can anybody tell me with a straight face what is better today than it was 4 years ago?

The Bush administration has used issues like abortion and gay marriage to drive a wedge into America. His administration has not united the American people. This is poor leadership. They have created an environment where there is not much middle ground. Their policy is that you are either for us or against us... on pretty much everything. I can not remember a time when there are so many extreme views in our country.

What Bush has is a great marketing organization and a great ability to spin. The more times people hear their lies and spin the more they believe it. Sometimes I find myself getting sucked in too... but then I catch myself and look at the facts.

When I read what many of the Bush supporters are writing it sounds like they feel the same way about Bush and Republicans as they do their favorite sports team.... they will support them because they always have... win or loose... right or wrong... not because they are the best choice.

All I can say is open your eyes and look at the facts. Read or listen to news other than US news. Take a look at the news of our allies... take a look at Canadian news, British news, Australian news. You will get a much different perspective. Then think for yourselves. If you do... I think you will find it extremely difficult to justify supporting Bush.

That's my two cent.


I posted some new video in under the 'Video' link at the bottom of the 'Paddling' section of

The new vids include:

- Bailey Helmet Cam
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Check'em out

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Old 09-17-2004   #43
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 27
A little of both. I am an ignoramus because I have an opinion? I guess you are too then. I'm not going to call you names or anything like that. You are apparently a lost cause and aren't worth the time or the effort since you are always right and your opinion is the only right one.

I am just trying to make people think a little and god forbid do a little research of their own rather than just believing the first thing that they hear. In order to make an informed decision you have to hear both sides. If I just listen to you then I have lost myself and my ability to make an informed decision. Vice Versa as well. Whatever you decide is right for you is right for you.

You got my point without spell check but I will do it to make you happy!

If we are to believe what we hear on TV, why is there such a stink going on with poor Mr. Rather? What about the Swift Boat Vets, who is lying? I'm not saying who is right but how do you know?

AHHHHH, stop thinking, it hurts!!!!!! NOOOO, dont do research.
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Old 09-17-2004   #44
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 27
You must have picked up a flyer from the last Kerry rally. You really should credit them to avoid plagiarism.

Sorry, its bed time.

Stay tuned tomorrow!

This is fun
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Old 09-17-2004   #45
BV, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 55
Whoa, dude, you're totally right man.
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Old 09-17-2004   #46
alexhenes's Avatar
Systems & Process Design, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Sorry bud... I think for myself... never been to a Kerry event or Democratic event for that matter. In fact... I am not a big Kerry fan... I just think he is leagues better than Bush. If someone other than Bush were oon the GOP ticket I just might have supported them.

I just think Bush is the worst thing that has ever happen to this country.

Thanks for the compliment on my thoughts though... are they really sound that profesional?
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Old 09-17-2004   #47
Evergreen, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 316
keep in mind that the role of the President of the United States is not a dictatorship. It is easy to blame one man, Clinton, Bush, Kerry, whomever, for whatever mess we have or will have in our country. But we still have a system of checks and balances. The president can still be vetoed.

I say this because everyone gets so fired up about presidential elections but few of us ever contact our senator or representative to make sure that they are casting good votes for good laws. I think we trust these people way more than we should and lack the trust in whoever our president is. Just a thought.
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Old 09-17-2004   #48
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 978
Wow, H20, you still have not shown me anything the least bit convincing. TheCraw said it--There is a total f-ing dunce in control of the free world. That should be enough said but for some reason people dont get the picture. Comic book guy said it best "Worst President Ever"

PS- oh yeah, Alex Henes, your site is sweet. So are a few other guys from this site
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Old 09-17-2004   #49
Denver (Philly Native), Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 146
Man the one thing about this election is that people are FIRED up. When when people actually think and not just pull the lever in the booth that's good. I recomend reading "Bushworld" for some scary insight on how the Bushies and cronies are trying to lead this country. Funny, but scary. And yes, the Daily Show is where I get most of my news...At least he rips on both parties.[/code]
"When the going gets weird, the Weird turn pro" -HST
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Old 09-17-2004   #50
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by h2oxtc
Bush isnt trying to make anyone Christain, he is just saying what he thinks and there is nothing wrong with that.
Not true – Bush is using religion as a wedge issue to gain more votes. I try not to judge Bush’s faith, but when I look at his actions, I guess I have to admit that GW and I have radically different views on Christianity. Take his policy on pre-emptive war. Is that a Christian concept? Is that what Christ would do? No way. Not that I’m some sort of pacificist, but couple that with the administration’s politics’ driven use of faulty intelligence on WMDs and alienation of our traditional allies, and you see that they really screwed up with Iraq. And once they got into Iraq, they mismanaged the war, and couldn’t win the peace. Unbelieveable. IMO, impeachable.

Originally Posted by h2oxtc
The enviromentalist would like you to believe that the world is in dire straights and we are causing everything from global warming to causing cancer. Sure some things that we do arent that great for the enviroment and do cause cancer, but to think that we as a nation have that much of an inpact on the enviroment is obserd.
Nearly all scientists agree (except those affiliated with energy production) that the earth is warming up as a result of greenhouse gases. As a nation, we are far and away the leading producer of greenhouse gases. To ignore this or say this is not the case is wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by h2oxtc
Dams are built to provide energy for the people in a certain area. Would you rather use coal from a near by strip mine.
I’d really like to use neither. Unfortunately, with the current administration, both a dam or a coal mine are more likely to be in your backyard, irregardless of the negative environmental or social effects that they may cause. That’s right h2oxtc – your backyard…

Originally Posted by h2oxtc
Oh ya... we arent alone in the war. Their were many countries that support what we are trying to do and believe it is a just cause.
Give me a break. Just for one moment, compare the coalition from Gulf War I with Gulf War II. After you do that exercise, look at the administrations cost projections prior to the war, compared with the current situation. Then, take a look at who shared the cost burden of Gulf war I (90% allies, 10% US) to Gulf War II (90% US, 10% allies). Even you should realize that the “allies” that we have in this war are just token allies, participating more from arm-twisting.

Originally Posted by h2oxtc
To be honest I think what Bush is doing by trying to start a Democracy in the middle of one of the worst problems that is around today, the middle east, is an outstanding idea.
On this, I happen to agree with you. Unfortunately, I think that the way that the Bush administration has tried to do this is certain to fail. Iraq, a democracy? The security situation is deteriorating – just watch your Fox news – the rate of US casualties has risen since the transfer of power. I just don’t see that the path this administration has put us on will lead to democracy in the middle east. If anything, I see us alienating even more of the Arab street with the guerilla warfare we now find ourselves in.

Originally Posted by h2oxtc
One thing that would get us out of the financial mess that we are in would be to get rid of all of the ILLEGAL immagrants that are getting US citizen benifits and financial aid from the US government.
Right. Those benefits are a huge part of the problem, especially when you compare the costs to what we are spending in Iraq. In fact, I bet if we stopped all illegal immigration, I’m sure that we’d get rid of that pesky federal deficit.

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