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Old 09-16-2004   #31
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Thanks Marko for summing it up. Agreed. Don't forget Cheney's and Bush's ties to Haliburton who received all the contracts for rebuild. Tax payers pay for the destruction. 200 Billion?. Haliburton makes billions with reconstruction. Fat checks for being member of board after serving in office. Great scam.

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Old 09-16-2004   #32
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 978
Big ups to Clark, marko, matobs and badkins for explaining how it really is. Well put. Surfpiper, you been watchin too much FOX news

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Old 09-16-2004   #33
Lyons, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 256
Join the Republicans

I am by principle an Independent and believe partisanship is destructive to our polical process. Too many people are drinking their parties magic koolaid and listening to their own propaganda. The partisanship and the lack of campaign reforms has given us two highly funded, very poor quality candidates. I would be an Independent , but that is worthless since they do not get federal funding and have no primary!

I joined the Republicans when I was 18 (many years ago) because their platform was strong foreign policy, strong economy, less beauracracy and they used to have a far better envirnomental policy then they do now.

But now the Republicans have been taken over by the fundamentalist "Christian? Coalition" and that scares the crap out of me. Now we have a President who ignored the International Community when they declared there was no WMD and that the Iraq war was not justified. He then took us to war that killed 12,000 Iraqis and 1,000 Americans on very poor intelligence that was obvously not strong even before the war. We went from being one of the most repected countries in the world right after 9/11 to being one of the most hated. How can you simply say woops and that it was the CIAs fault? That is hardly a strong foreign policy!!

The economy. We have seen one of the worst downturns since the depression with Bush's reactionary policy of only handing out a tax break. That is not too impresssive to me, since he has racked up a huge deficit to replace the tax cut. Not too strong of a economic policy!

Less Beauracracy and smaller governement. Bush formed the Homeland Security Agency which is one of the largest government agency created in one hell of a long time, which has essentially removed some of our freedoms and has us crapping our pants once an orange light goes on.

Though the Democrats routinely field these wimpy ass candidates, it is the Republicans with their stronger leadership skills, but taking us in the wrong direction that scares me the most. I simply do not know how a Republicans can vote for Bush with his anti-republican track record without it being strictly partisanship. If the Democrats can't beat Bush with all his weaknesses, then they are pathetic and should disband and convert to Independents!!! So why am I a Republican since I have not voted for a Republican President in a long time, because they need to change from within at the primary stage before these candidates reach the Presidential stage. I can always vote for a Democrat when the election comes around. Anyone want to join me? ....Oh, I voting against Bush!! I can't imagine Kerry being any worse.
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Old 09-16-2004   #34
badkins's Avatar
Laramie, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 488
If the writers for the daily show were working for Kerry he would be ahead in the polls! Check out this video, it is hilarious. Click on the video link on the right of the page, it is labeled... George W Bush: Words speak louder than actions.
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Old 09-16-2004   #35
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 14
November's election

Ok everyone, I have a few things to say and a few questions for you all. I want to know if the people who still support G.W. truly know why, or do you resond with the time tested rhetoric of, "because he will keep us safe"? Also, for those of you who are not going to vote, do you think that you are really voting for the people who are running for office or are you voting for the issue that you feel strongly about and which administration will carry out more decisions and changes that will directly affect you and your family in a positive way?

As a historian and beginner boater I felt compelled to add my two cents in. Focusing an entire election on the single issue of who will keep us (Americans) safe is shallow and very rhetorical. Chosing the administration that will be in office working at the highest levels in this great country, needs to respond to a multitude of issues that are occuring in our country, as well as addressing our issues with foregin relations.
As boaters I feel compelled to remind the Bush supporters that he has rolled back almost all of the environmental forward progress that was made during the Clinton administration. He is trying to advocate and get the green light to log on public lands. This translates as your back yard is vulnerable, as well as almost all the boater put ins and take outs that I know of in the West.
Another thing to remember is that our place in current events can be placed in history and analyzed. There have been other times in history that various administrations have vilified certain ethnicities and races in order to solidify the nation behind a President and/or issues. For example: the FEAR for ones safety was intensly perpetuated when it related to communists and what might happen if communism infiltrated the U.S. The McCarthy hearings, the Cold War. The next came during WWII when our nation was urged not to feel safe with the enemy (Japanese) were living among us, so we put them in internment camps, sound familiar to anyone? I want to remind everyone that the U.S. has made MANY mistakes in its past and we have only paid reparation once, to the Japanese-Americans. Wonder why?
Now, this is not to say that I condone terrorism. The contrary is true, I feel that the people who murdered Americans on 9/11 should be held accountable, but I also refuse to convince myself that going into Iraq helped us get closer to that goal. But I can support someone who would attempt to calm an escalated issue and re-affirm our once distinguished position in the world. I belive that the issue of terrorism is absolutely not new, do some research if you doubt me, and that it will continue if there isn't a change in how this issue is addressed.
We have many issues such as poor education (manily in urban environments), skyrocketting health care price tags, major climate changes as a result of the poor treatment of our environment, and the people who care for Americans the most are paid the least. Ex: firefighters, police, nurses, caregivers, and teachers.
So, I encourage all of you to look into the issues that will directly influence and affect your life, not what "they" tell you will affect your life.
Don't pass on voting, there are men and women who fought a very bloody war inorder for us to have that opportunity.

May you all be well, regardless of partisan lines
P.S. Way to go Clark!
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Old 09-16-2004   #36
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 978
Badkins' video was right on! It's so old hearing people say that Kerry is a flip flopper. Thats what about every politician has always done, thas frickin politics. The Daily show is the best place to get news anymore, maybe PBS.
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Old 09-16-2004   #37
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 27
Clark, I disregarded everything you said after you said "dont you read the paper" . I wouldnt even bother reading the leftist dribble that is in the newspapers. I know what you are thinking... I watch Fox. I do watch Fox along with the other more liberal stations like CNN and NBC etc. to find some sort of the truth. Both sides are guilty of the same things and making up the same type of crap. At least I dont just take it at face value what comes out of the normal (liberal) media.

What is wrong with having a god? What is wrong with being religious? I personally am not a religious person, in fact I haven't been to church since my parents last made me about 20 years ago. If you dont believe, then dont believe, but you dont have to get on the people who do. Bush isnt trying to make anyone Christain, he is just saying what he thinks and there is nothing wrong with that. The whole religous thing has gotten way out of hand. If you dont want to pray at school, then dont. If you dont want to sing the National Anthem at a sporting event, then dont, but dont disrespect the people that do. Just sit there and keep quite, I am sure they would do the same for you and your beliefs.

The enviromentalist would like you to believe that the world is in dire straights and we are causing everything from global warming to causing cancer. Sure some things that we do arent that great for the enviroment and do cause cancer, but to think that we as a nation have that much of an inpact on the enviroment is obserd. Look up how much emition type gases and smoke come from one volcano and then tell me that we cause the holes in the ozone (which have always existed and always will). Dams are built to provide energy for the people in a certain area. Would you rather use coal from a near by strip mine. With as many people as there are and with all of the Mormans reproducing like they do what are we to do. Just joking Mormans, its the Mexicans (In jest).

Oh ya... we arent alone in the war. Their were many countries that support what we are trying to do and believe it is a just cause. Just because France and Germany dont want to play along doesnt mean that we were alone. We all know why they didnt want in, it was becuase there was money for them to loose by doing so. To be honest I think what Bush is doing by trying to start a Democracy in the middle of one of the worst problems that is around today, the middle east, is an outstanding idea. Once the government stabilizes in Iraqi dont you think the non-terrorsits in the other countries would like to have some freedom too. We all know that the terrorist dont want a democracy and wont stop terrorizing until everyone agrees with them, and that wont happen.

One thing that would get us out of the financial mess that we are in would be to get rid of all of the ILLEGAL immagrants that are getting US citizen benifits and financial aid from the US government. Oh... that would cut the Dem voter base in half in Califormia. Impossible, but you have to admit it is a problem.

I've had about enough fun. Sorry about my spelling and grammar, I am in a hurry and it would take a while to spell check all of the errors.

For those of us that support Bush, keep the faith and go vote.


I mean no disrespect to anynone I just like to push buttons, and listen to the s#%t hit the fan. I think this post has made a lot of people think, that wouldnt have if they hadnt read the post. Thinking is never a bad thing, no matter what side of the isle you are on.
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Old 09-16-2004   #38
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 978
haaaha, sounds like a true bush believer. H2o, you dug your own hole on that one.
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Old 09-17-2004   #39
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 27
I know, if it isnt what you believe its wrong. I am not that nieve to believe that I am right all of the time.

You guys cant keep saying that it is about the money. Of course it is about the money, there is no way that theis was about 3000
Americans (non military people) who died for simply going about there daily lives. I for one would be pretty pissed if that was how my life ended. I am going to hang out with all of those virgins and wait for them to show up one by one.

For those pacifists out there, if you were on one of the planes that was hijacked, what would you do? Would you do like the people on the plane that eventually crashed into a field and fight or would you just sit there and hope that the terrorists come to their sences and let you all go? Be carefull, VIOLENCE=VIOLENCE

I for one would go down fighting. Do they care if we talk nice to them or beg for our lives? F no they dont, ask the hostages that were beheaded what they think.

For all of those conspiracy theorists out there, Just because someone knows someone else and has worked with and for a company doesnt mean that he is behind some conspiracy to make money for them. Just like Clinton had nothing to do with White Water. Right!?! From what I have heard, Haliburton (sp?) was the only bidder that could handle the job. Of course they should get the contract. Should it go to someone from France? If so, why? They had a good deal going on with Saddam and now that is all gone. What are they to do now.

The next thing I expect to hear is that it is Bush's fault that we are getting pummeled with hurricanes. Oh wait, I am sure that it is global warming. It has nothing to do with the cycles of the earth though. Im sure Bush is just doing it just so he can give away the contract to rebuild Florida and the rest of the Gulf Coast to Chaney's company.

Do you think that the economy can be blamed on Bush? Bush gave the Democrats about half of what they wanted in the form or programs and the other crap that you are blaming him for. Whos fault is that? Does the president have the ability to change the economy in the blink of an eye or does it take a while for things to develope? If you are being honest you know that the later is the true answer. Since that is the case wouldnt the economy be Clintons fault?

What did you do with your refund? I am sure that you sent it back since it wasnt neccesary. I for one spent mine the day I got it. That adds up to a hell of a lot of money being put right back into the economy. Now that makes sence! I want some examples of the economy being that bad. No it isnt as good as it was a couple of years back but it isnt as bad as the media makes it sound. I for one have made a lot of money in the stock market. If it was that bad would that be the case? Unemployment is lower than it has been in quite a while. I know... they are low paying jobs. Well, suck it up and take a job if you dont have one. You can make a decision to make your own fortune or you can sit there and wait for some demoract program to take care of you. I will make my own fortune and no one has the right to keep me from doing that. You have the same rights so take advantage of it.

Do you care if someone doesnt like you? Who cares if they hate us? All they have to do is respect us and (how dare I say this) fear us. Who does everyone come to when they need assistance? I am sure they put their personal feelings aside in order to get help. Like it or not we are the big brother to every deserving country and some that dont deserve it. Doesnt the world deserve to be protected from tyrants and dictators. I know... Bush is a dictator. Just keep thinking that and you will become as dumb as sound.

Taxe relief for the richest Americans. What a joke. The top 20% of wage earners pay 80% of the tax burdon. Who deserves the refund and who got the last one? I got a check did you? If you arent in the top 20% of wage earners and you believe that this was for the rich, you better send your back, it had to have been a mistake. The only fair way to do taxes is a flat tax.

keep reading and posting people, you may learn something from one of us, left or right. It doesnt hurt to hear both sides of the story. Make your own decision from there.
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Old 09-17-2004   #40
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 14

Hey h2oxtc,

Are you just trying to rial people up or are you really this much of an ignoramus?

Oh, by the way, try using spell check.

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