Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-26-2004   #101
El Flaco's Avatar
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,879
Just so I'm clear on this:

Pre-emptive strikes against enemies, who have the potential, and who have shown their proclivity from past events to utilize whatever means they have and deem necessary to wreck havok upon innocents and otherwise, need to be removed, eradicated, exterminated, pick the term. They should be hunted down like the animals they are and killed, no questions, no miranda rights, nada zip zilch.

To those of you that would presume to live with the notion that Ali Mohammad would be your friend. He might be your friend, all the while he plots to cut the throats of you, your loved ones and probably your dog too.
So the world population is now running about 22% Muslim and growing faster than any other religious population (Christians consist of about 33%). Under your plan of "extermination", we should steel ourselves for the subjugation of about 800 million people spread all over the the Middle East, Asia, Indonesia, and of course the 2.5 million Muslims living inside our borders (Hmm, where are we going put those interment camps?). If you think that we're anywhere close to the "endgame" along the parameters of current policy, you're dangerously mistaken. Common sense will tell you that we can't sustain (economically, politically, culturally) that kind of religious crusade. For reference, there were 80 million Germans at the onset of WWII and that didn't cost too much in time, capital, and human sacrifice to conquer those people, did it? Not that we had much help, either.

One point I might concede in part on the Oil issue of the Iraqi conflict is that the Iraqi Oil reserves ARE of strategic interest to the USA. Taking them by force, siphoning off the oil, and other such nonsensical tripe it just that, a load of bollacks. The only time this country would outright take the oil only is during a global-wide conflict, which I seriously doubt would happen at this juncture.
This IS happening. This conflict isn't about Iraqi freedom. If it's about "stabilizing the region", that's only a function of how much our energy policies have made our country so beholden to these "evil people". By your anti-Islam statements, you're proposing that we spearhead this global conflict. We've done nothing to ween ourselves off of Middle East oil- something that will admittedly take decades to accomplish - but our leaders in the last 30 years have failed to show the political will to move towards greater energy independence. Moreover, W. and his father have pushed the needle in the wrong direction.

Tell me again who's being naive?

El Flaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2004   #102
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 89
Have you guys noticed that there is an ignore button at the bottom of each post? All current and future posts by the person will be hidden. Nice feature if you really don't want to bother with some of these guys and don't trust their future opinions. Saves screen real estate.

This topic is useful for identifying appropriate people to ignore.

Thought out opposing views are fine, but some of these rants do indicate a funny view of life.

Like the baseball analogy!

stiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2004   #103
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 14
Hi everyone,

It has been a while since I was in the mix but the ignorance and racist/ ethnocentric crap coming from mvhyde has compelled me back on the site again. So, has anyone read this article yet. I find it very interesting considering all the "I know more than you do" crap that I have been reading.
Oh, by the way mvhyde, this country was founded on the idea that the colonies were questioning and willing to challenge their leader and the authority by which they were controlled. It is what us American Historians call the American Revolution! So genius, our nation was born under the idea that we, as citizens, have the God given, as well as constitutionally given right to question the authority of the government. With that said, here is the article:

Back to regular view
Print this page

Quick exit from Iraq is likely

September 20, 2004


Inside the Bush administration policymaking apparatus, there is strong feeling that U.S. troops must leave Iraq next year. This determination is not predicated on success in implanting Iraqi democracy and internal stability. Rather, the officials are saying: Ready or not, here we go.

This prospective policy is based on Iraq's national elections in late January, but not predicated on ending the insurgency or reaching a national political settlement. Getting out of Iraq would end the neoconservative dream of building democracy in the Arab world. The United States would be content having saved the world from Saddam Hussein's quest for weapons of mass destruction.

The reality of hard decisions ahead is obscured by blather on both sides in a presidential campaign. Six weeks before the election, Bush cannot be expected to admit even the possibility of a quick withdrawal. Sen. John Kerry's political aides, still languishing in fantastic speculation about European troops to the rescue, do not even ponder a quick exit. But Kerry supporters with foreign policy experience speculate that if elected, their candidate would take the same escape route.

Whether Bush or Kerry is elected, the president or president-elect will have to sit down immediately with the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The military will tell the election winner there are insufficient U.S. forces in Iraq to wage effective war. That leaves three realistic options: Increase overall U.S. military strength to reinforce Iraq, stay with the present strength to continue the war, or get out.

Well-placed sources in the administration are confident Bush's decision will be to get out. They believe that is the recommendation of his national security team and would be the recommendation of second-term officials. An informed guess might have Condoleezza Rice as secretary of state, Paul Wolfowitz as defense secretary and Stephen Hadley as national security adviser. According to my sources, all would opt for a withdrawal.

Getting out now would not end expensive U.S. reconstruction of Iraq, and certainly would not stop the fighting. Without U.S. troops, the civil war cited as the worst-case outcome by the recently leaked National Intelligence Estimate would be a reality. It would then take a resolute president to stand aside while Iraqis battle it out.

The end product would be an imperfect Iraq, probably dominated by Shia Muslims seeking revenge over long oppression by the Sunni-controlled Baathist Party. The Kurds would remain in their current semi-autonomous state. Iraq would not be divided, reassuring neighboring countries -- especially Turkey -- that are apprehensive about ethnically divided nations.

This messy new Iraq is viewed by Bush officials as vastly preferable to Saddam's police state, threatening its neighbors and the West. In private, some officials believe the mistake was not in toppling Saddam but in staying there for nation building after the dictator was deposed.

Abandonment of building democracy in Iraq would be a terrible blow to the neoconservative dream. The Bush administration's drift from that idea is shown in restrained reaction to Russian President Vladimir Putin's seizure of power. While Bush officials would prefer a democratic Russia, they appreciate that Putin is determined to prevent his country from disintegrating as the Soviet Union did before it. A fragmented Russia, prey to terrorists, is not in the U.S. interest.

The Kerry campaign, realizing that its only hope is to attack Bush for his Iraq policy, is not equipped to make sober evaluations of Iraq. When I asked a Kerry political aide what his candidate would do in Iraq, he could do no better than repeat the old saw that help is on the way from European troops. Kerry's foreign policy advisers know there will be no release from that quarter.

In the Aug. 29 New York Times Magazine, columnist David Brooks wrote an article (''How to Reinvent the GOP'') that is regarded as a neo-con manifesto and not popular with other conservatives.

''We need to strengthen nation states,'' Brooks wrote, calling for ''a multilateral nation-building apparatus.'' To chastened Bush officials, that sounds like an invitation to repeat Iraq instead of making sure it never happens again.

Copyright © The Sun-Times Company
All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Lastly, Kerry has recently stated that he would not immediately pull out from Iraq. If you actually listened, as well as read various news sites you might know that.

One last question for the genius on the site. Do you know how Saddam actually acquired his power in Iraq? I thought since you were such a know-it-all about the region, which you earlier refereed to as "Indian country" ( do you remember what country you were actually in?), you might know the history of Iraq and of the Baathist Party.

MBK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2004   #104
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 978
Thanks for the tip STIFF, I'm getting tired of someone in particular telling us how naive and stupid we are while he is sooo enlightened.
FLOWTORCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #105
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855

I have been boating this week so I had to do some catching up on this topic. Mvhyde...I was in your neck of the woods last week. You have some good whitewater down there. Vallecito is the SHIZNIT!!!

Back to your insult towards me....CLUELESS, you think I am. So what you are saying is I need to go and risk getting my head chopped off to understand what is going on in this region. I would be clueless to go and visit Iraq in my opinion.

Here is what is clueless. Why you (MVhyde) and other people can't just for one minute admit they just might be wrong.

I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG!!!! This seems to be the main problem with the situation in the Mid East as with any conflict. Our religion is the right religion and yours is lame. Our way is RIGHT...Yours is WRONG! Until people can just for once realize this "I am right and you are wrong attitude" is a waste of precious life we will always have stupid shit like Iraq going on. This attitude has been destroying human life as we know it since the beginning of humans.

But hey, what do I know...I am clueless. I do know one thing and that is I am not always right.

So good luck with your gun toting ass...MVhyde...I don't care to listen to your ego based garbage anymore. I hope you and your ego have a great life in that cubicle of yours.

marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #106
Livingston's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 679
Huh, so my Muslim neighbors are ALL plotting to cut my throat? Their book says they have to convert the world to their religeon? Hmmm, that sounds so familiar.

Does anyone recall a couple of dumb Texas girls prostletizing in Afganistan right before we invaded? The Taliban declared they would put to death anyone caught teaching anything but their religeon, yet these girls went anyway to sell Jesus. They had bibles and videos that they would make people watch who were in need of food and basic medical.

They were turned in and caught of course. I saw their interview once they were found unharmed after we invaded. This is not a quote but what they said was something like this-- they knew they would be alright and if they died they weren't upset because they were doing God's work. They were ready to die for their God, sound familiar?

I've never seen a Jahova's Witness (sp?) cutting off any heads, but take away a bit of education, jobs, car, house, and some luxuries, in other words, take away everything but hope for a better life once they die and what do you get...

My neighbors are not plotting to cut off my head you moron! You are fear mongoring just like your boy W!

So all of us on this forum (and in this country) who were not in the military are ignorant of the issues? I guess we should leave the voting up to only the men and women who have served? That sounds like a great idea, let people trained to take orders without question elect the leaders of our country. No disrespect to the folks in the military, I respect them as much as doctors, lawyers, astronauts, janitors, and engineers, truck drivers, etc.
Livingston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #107
Mike Harvey's Avatar
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 805
dude...holy shit this is good stuff. Mountainbuzz needs some spice when the water is down. Here is my 2cent contribution:

9/11 was horrible. I shed tears on that day for people I did not know and one that I did. 3000 people died. Mothers, brothers, sisters, fathers, people that mattered. I have two kids and I am effected in deeper ways than I ever was before when terrible things happen to people. That said, a terrible, fear inducing, event should not be the definition of our country today. If we are in fact better than the rest of the world then make sure kids have health care, that people have the ability to pursue happiness not corporate indenture, that the air my son and daughter breathe gets cleaner not worse, and mostly that democracy and all the ideals that come with it continues to evolve and truly become the greatest form of government in the world. On all these fronts GDub has failed miserably.

Am I worried about terrorism? Sure. I am also worried about earthquakes and hurricanes. I don't live in fear of terrorism I live in fear of the condition of the world that my children will live in. Controlling the country with fear is closer to 1984 then the ideal this country was founded on.

And to all my homies out there like Cory (sorry dude but you singled yourself out) who don't vote. You are getting punked by the system. You have a voice but many people would just as soon see you not exercise it so that they can maintain the status quo.
Mike Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #108
Livingston's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 679
I've kind of lost track, has anyone brought up W's rediculous idea of a constitutional amendment banning gay marriages?

I am not gay (but I am single ladies) but is there anything so wrong with gayness that we need to amend our constitution? Are homosexuals a threat to homeland security? I don't know, perhaps polls show they are more likely to buy a hybrid vehicle. To put this issue up at the level of free speech, states rights, trial by jury, women's right to vote, right to vote regardless of race, etc., things I associate with trying to ensure our freedom, W uses it to take away. I would think that even the W supporters would agree, no matter how they felt about homosexuality, that the constitution is not the appropriate forum for this issue.

I was in Syracuse last week for work, I was amazed at the number of W stickers on cars. All the news talk shows sounded like that mhyde guy, scary stuff. I've also been in Cali, Iowa, and NJ recently. Don't think the rest of the world is like this forum, I travel a lot for work and I am freaking out at the number of people not paying attention!

My prediction is that W is going to win this thing.
Livingston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #109
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
this'll piss people off

Not a pleasant thought, but we got what we deserved IE 9/11. With all the covert weapons deals, training and money we have given to countries we have no business in, that "We the people" have no say in, we got what we deserved. Hell, we trained Bin Ladin. This has been going on prior even to Clintons' wonderful "I did not have sexual relations" foreign policy. Safety? Sure, bring our military home, guard our airports, guard our boarders and stop people coming to our country for our education just so they can go to their home and F$$$ us again. Change? Hell yes, but none of you Demicans or Republicrats are offering the kind of change appropriate for this country. They say "vote for the lesser of two evils", I say"F$$$ you" I don't vote evil. I think I'll vote Ventura. Then we can all boat safely.
happy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2004   #110
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 388
Whoever (Andy?) mentioned the website, it's great. It's non-partisan fact checking of ads.

Checkout .

It's depressing that this deception works. Democracy needs educated voters.

cstork is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dangerous conditions in the BC backcountry ToddG Winter Buzz 1 03-07-2007 10:40 AM
Dangerous wood in Foxton! soylent green Whitewater Kayaking 3 07-23-2006 06:56 PM
Dangerous Encounter at the Mystery Canal RiverWrangler Whitewater Kayaking 5 03-29-2006 06:57 PM
A Real dangerous Question erdvm1 Whitewater Kayaking 9 09-23-2004 07:52 PM
How dangerous is Frog's Rock Rapid on Ark/Fractions? cstork Whitewater Kayaking 2 09-07-2004 02:16 PM

» Classified Ads
Pyranha 9R LG

posted by atom

2016 Pyranha 9R LG for sale. Used twice. Love it but not...

AT Geronimo Glass Paddle...

posted by MaxInTexas

AT Geronimo straight shaft paddle with 30 degree offset. ...

Wavesport XG 48

posted by rendock

Wavesport ZG 48 kayak, fun all around boat, hardly used...

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.