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Old 03-08-2010   #1
thecraw's Avatar
Boulder, Jackson Kayak, Colorado
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Curious to get a vote from the buzzards...

So, I have noticed that anytime I put an update on almost anything Jackson Kayak related, be it new product or simply a video that we have that may be of interest, photo's/stories of certain successful/unsuccessful decents the admins seem intent on burying it into a category that is not reachable from the list of choices for forums.

If that is the case, I for one will stop trying to send out product updates/video links/etc, but I have had at least a hundred calls over the past month regarding the Villains for instance and figured you all might want to see where it is at this stage. I want to respect the wishes of community.

The post I put up on Saturday ended up in a "commercial" forum that I can't find how to get too from the home page...

Any opinions?

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. But rather...To skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... WOW !!!! What a ride!!!!!!"
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Old 03-08-2010   #2
Riparian's Avatar
Little Village, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
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Click "Forum Listings" and you get the full list... including "Commercial".

Uh, I'm just gonna go find a cash machine.
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Old 03-08-2010   #3
bobbuilds's Avatar
x, x
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welcome to my world, seriously though, I appreciate what you bring to the table and will say with out a doubt that it is infromative and usefull information. I know what you mean when you knowingly put something in a more used and well seen forum only to go looking for it the next day and find it elsewhere(my stoke video for example) However, as a member of other forums as well I can say with out a doubt we are over moderated to some extent. I don't think we can please everyone and frankly I don't stress about it. Some view it as spam and others wouldn't know what they were looking at if we explained it anyway.

Don't get frustrated, just cope, and know that those who are in the know appreciate your posts even if we have to look for them. And I encourage every one to click on the FORUMS button to see the rest of what Mountain Buzz has to offer. lots of great information here.

my .02
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Old 03-08-2010   #4
kayakfreakus's Avatar
Steamboat, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
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Using the 50 latest posts link I see it because it includes the commercial links. So I see them even when moved, I never even notice things get moved honestly.

I think it is a very fine line to some people. Personally I do get annoyed about users posting information that is clearly commercially motivated to make money or promote their product/gear/store (especially when they bump it themselves without anyone else doing it for them).

But, I do like and want to see the boat and gear reviews which 90% of the time come from people associated to their products so I think its all in the post. For example yours, that's fine with me in the boater's forum cause its a new boat, you posted it was written by team Jackson, and through all the other threads discussing the Villian I think its obvious people want to hear about it. I would say the same thing for a review of the new Mulan by Pyranha team members or any other new model coming out for all the lovely Jackson haters out there that will cry special treatment. I guess I would be interested in hearing what criteria the admins use to move things... Is it because you rep for Jackson all posts are automatically moved? Or is it the content of the post?
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Old 03-08-2010   #5
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Westminster, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
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Well here's the problem Craw you were trying to be infomative and helpful on a forum ment to poke fun and belittle your fellow boaters! Baliff whack his pee-pee!!
Normal is a setting on your washing machine!
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Old 03-08-2010   #6
Telluride, Colorado
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Well I don't like it because I was plannin' on checkin' out that post.
Where the hell is it?
I was going to be vague but then I decided to do this other thing.
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Old 03-08-2010   #7
Denver, Colorado
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Keep on posting the updates Craw. I like to see what Jackson is up to, and I'm interested in seeing the new villain. I don't frequently check out the jackson sites so the links are helpful, regardless of where an admin buries them.

The multiple forum deal is goofy. My take is things would be simpler and easier to navigate without the multiple low traffic forums, but logic does not always prevail. Next thing you know someone will be begging for a hermaprodite C1er forum... where does the madness end?
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Old 03-08-2010   #8
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
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Of all the folks that use MountainBuzz to promote products they represent, you are probably the most difficult to deal with. This is because you are often on the site giving info to folks, joining in the conversations that take place, chiming in on things. As opposed to others who merely use the Buzz from someplace far away to get free advertising for some kind of boating related stuff. You are real, live, contributing member of the boating community in Colorado and always have something good to say or add to the conversation.

When you post to promote Jackson Kayak products we assume your goal is to improve Jackson's profitability and your own. If the post isn't there already, it'll probably get moved over into the "Commercial Posts" section. This part of the site exists because all through our day, we have a zillion companies crowding our consciousness trying to sell us stuff. Some of what we get hit with all day long, like the line you represent, is stuff Buzzards may be interested in buying, most of it is crap. There's already enough advertising on the Buzz but unfortunately its necessary in order to keep the site up and running without members having to pay. So the admins move anything that looks like a promotional post over to the commercial posts section to give folks that just want to read "Boaters Forum," or others, a break from more advertising. This gives folks a chance to read through funny stories about their buds, get info on runs or access, or otherwise kick back and savor boating or skiing-related banter without being sold stuff. Folks seem to be able to find your threads where they get put, as evidenced by the thread on Jackson's kids boats in which you had a lively discussion, Dave posted video of Riley doing a hand roll, etc.

Its a double-edged sword that the site is complex enough that its tough to find your posts sometimes and has lots of ways to view things. When I log in, I usually blow past the home page and click on "new posts" which is how I found your post here. I don't usually notice where a particular post is when I log on this way.

But for other folks that use the site differently, we've got all the areas so its not just one big mass of posts about all kinds of things. I just looked and of all the different subforums available from the forum listing, every one had at least two people viewing it (even the "Buzz Announcements with the most recent post in January - WTF?), and the Boater's Forum getting about 150 viewers. I know the way the site's set up is complicated for some folks but anyone should be able to figure out how to use the site in a way that suits them.

Ian - regarding the specter of a "hermaprodite C1er forum" is this a subtle way to come out of the closet and tell the world you're a C1er at heart?

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 03-08-2010   #9
Andy R's Avatar
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Here is another post on the Villan that our friends at 4 Corners (who sponsor the Buzz)
posted in the Commercial Forum that is 6 pages long. People do see the posts there:
New Jackson Creeker - the Villain

As Andy pointed out, it's really tough call on how to handle these things because we get so many people who just post to pimp their goods and add little else to the community. As he mentioned, you are not one of those guys. The problem is determining who is allowed and who is not allowed. It would not be fair to the great guys at 4 Corners (sponsors) to let others posts commercial stuff in any forums and ask them to keep their commercial posts to the commercial section.

FWIW - I removed the Winter Buzz section of the home page that was pushing down the Other Discussion section where the Commercial Posts show up. This will help them get more exposure on the home page. I also added a link in the left hand column to the commercial post forum so you can get there from every page on the Buzz.
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Old 03-08-2010   #10
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
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Posts: 808
bump bump bump


I would highly recommend that you bump your posts every hour, on the hour, for the entire kayak season. Sure, you won't get a full night's sleep for the next eight months, but I would much rather watch JK porn than read another "Which spatula for my drybox?" or "Ruby/Horsethief beta please!" thread. Seriously, do it.

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