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Old 02-06-2006   #1
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 20
Creeker question

Ok this spring I wanna do some creeking. Im starting to browse at boats and am torn between a big water river runner (LL LilJoe) or diving in with a true creek boat(Pyranna M3 or? ) Im a smaller boater(@140 )looking for a responsive boat to get the job done...doubt Ill be doing alot of gnar Class 5 stuff just 4/5 stuff. Any suggestions or comments of runnning a river boat as a creeker or advise in general on good starter creeker runs would be very helpful. Good on the Numbers in a playboat looking towards Piedra/Animas and whatever else?! COME ON SPRING!!

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Old 02-06-2006   #2
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
Based on people I know that are close to your size and weight I would think the Java would be good if you want something with a displacement hull. Several people have told me that it is a great boat if you can find one. No personal experience but I trust the people that liked em.

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Old 02-06-2006   #3
badkins's Avatar
Laramie, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 488
The Prijon Creeker 225 is a good boat for your size.
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Old 02-06-2006   #4
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 176
To creek or not to creek, that is the question? When I began boating everything was a tweener. Today boats have become so specific it is difficult to know what to buy, partticularly if you dont have years of experience under your belt. I believe you need to ask yourself a fundamental question, do you want to run the s&$@. I ask this because you will not enjoy paddling a creek boat unless you are running creeks. generaly they dont surf or play well. So if your intention is to progress to running rivers at a class 4+ to 5 level get a creek boat and hold on cause it gonna be a bumpy ride. On the other hand if your intention is to run primarily class 4 to 5- and you are more interested in finding the good surfing waves in gore rather than running the infinite number of unique lines to be had, go with the tweener. Simply put buy a boat for what you aspire to paddle, if you arent interested in creekin dont get a creek boat.
Good Luck, Dano
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Old 02-06-2006   #5
bowen's Avatar
Asheville, North Carolina
Paddling Since: 98
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 211
For your size I'd look at these in creekers:

Jefe (maybe a bit longer than your used too but paddles really easy)
M3 233 (classic design, smaller package, great ckeeker)
prijon creeker (maybe your best overall option as badkins says)

river runner:

Lil Joe
Diesel 65
new Pyranha "Burn", new H3, out this spring
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Old 02-06-2006   #6
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 20

I want to creek, waterfalls the whole nine yards. Actually have done Mx waterfalls(@20ft) in a Siren. Shh dont tell the siren it wasnt supposed to run that stuff. Im just having a hard time giving up my edge and moving to what I am envisioning as a barge. So... I need to go volume, boofability, and all that makes a creeker and leave a playboat a playboat...huh! Be the log!
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Old 02-06-2006   #7
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 490
Demo a Prijon Cross, too. More edgy, but faster than most creekers. A lot of the class 4 rivers/creeks in CO are not really creeks in the sense that you're not skittering off boulders and scraping down slides. For the Animas/Piedra/Encampment/Pine Creek and Clear Creek of the Ark, I think that holding a line and having speed to punch holes is more important than resurfacing.
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Old 02-06-2006   #8
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1
You could also try the Fluid Solo S. I am 130 lbs and kayak class IV+ V regularly. They are changing the outfitting this year which will make it better. Several of my friends have also been in a demo We all like it. Fast, easy to roll, predictable, boofs well, handles great in big water. (North Fork of the Payette) I also paddle a Pyranha H2 245
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Old 02-06-2006   #9
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 106
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modern creekers with speed

you can get a little bit of speed out of some of the modern creekers.
try the medium Solo instead of the smallest one. You're big enough to handle it.

Also, my best recommendation would be a DragoRossi Mafia
It is the best balance between speed and manueverablility (however you spell that strange word...) It was designed with both the tight low volume stuff in Europe in mind, as well as the big water creeking of Quebec. So it is truely a balanced machine. (and the price just went down a bit I think)

The LLGUS is great for big water, but just doesn't turn as well as others. It is made to "point and shoot" (relative to it's larger size)

Don't go for a compromise boat like the Hoss or Diesel. Get a dedicated creek boat so that you are all set up for creeking. You can't have it all (regarless of what the spin doctors say). The "do everything" boats do nothing well. They don't surf as good as a playboat. They don't creek with as much safety or ability as a creek boat. They paddle class IV, cruising, nothing special, well.

So, do you want to sacrifice your safety and handling ability when creeking?
Or, do you want to sacrifice the little bit of surfing you'll get?

Get a dedicated creek boat and use it for creeking and big water.
Get a playboat if you want to play. You'll have much more fun this way.

Think of it this way.
You have one boat that is a compromise everything that you want to do. It does nothing well,but everything kinda acceptably. You wear it out in two years, and need another one.

OR. you have a dedicated creek boat that will give you all the perfomance you need when creeking (MAFIA), and you can grow in your confidence on things that are at the edge of your abilities, allowing you to keep growing, and having more fun.
Also, you have a surf/playboat that just plays like a monster, and you can do more tricks, catch more waves, have more fun than you thought possible.
You have split your river hours between two boats. So, each boat would (in theory) last 4 years, because you are only putting half of the mileage on them than if you had only one boat that did everything mediorcre and nothing well.
The choice is yours.
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Old 02-06-2006   #10
GAtoCSU's Avatar
Eagle, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 696
I'm 5'10 and 145lbs. Here's my take on those boats. I have paddled for a long time (since 93ish), raced slalom, and am currently being helped out by Liquid Logic for creekboating. Anyways, with that bias out of the way...


The Java was a good design in it's day but it was defiently not for me. I've spent several days in this boat on class 4->5 creeks and was not impressed at all. It's very shallow (almost felt like a slalom boat size for me) and it's defiently not fast. The outfitting is archaic and the volume is way too low for it's size.

Creeker 225:

It has a keel. Why would anyone put a keel on a small, manuverable design? Kinda defeats the purpose of having a small, slow boat.


If you get this boat, get the 243. There is no reason that you should get the smaller version of this boat. I have spent time in both and I defiently prefer the length, speed, and volume of the larger boat over the smaller version.


Great boat. It's not a hardcore creeker but does that really matter? I don't think so. I would take it on any river on any day. Very similiar feel to the M3. I would take the M3 over the latter.


The Jefe is the best creeker that I have ever been in. I've paddled a ton of boats and fell in love within the first few strokes. The boat is sickly fast, high volume so it's going to float like crazy, the rocker in the front makes boofing and planing out easy to say the least.

The best thing I like about the Jefe is the feel on the water. It's speed is matched with a turning radius that makes your neck snap. It paddles in a straight line if you keep the hull flat. Then, aggressively lean the boat in to the inside of a turn and wooh! it turns on a dime. I don't care how fast I'm going either. I can turn on a dime in the fastest of water. Eddy catching is fun once again!

To make a long story short, there are some boats that I would stay away from and others that will get the job done. The Jefe, in my opinion and many others, is the sickest boat on the market right now. But, if it's not for you and/or you can't find one (did you want used?) then go with the M3 or the new Salto.

Just my 2-cents. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.


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