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Old 04-21-2004   #11
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 47
hey parker, just got a call from joggy, sounds like we are going to california. are you in?

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Old 04-21-2004   #12
Have paddled a Quest
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 102
Rescue Gear

My .02:

Definitely include at least one pulley; two carabiners with reversed gates will work, but it is more weight and more friction.

Use locking biners for your anchor- they are stronger and will not open on you (again, you could use two non-locking with opposed gates, but that is more weight).

Include some duct tape so you can tape a biner to the end of your paddle with the gate open to use as a hook for reaching to pinned boats.

50 ft. throw bag is insufficient in most cases; I have a 75 ft spectra core bag. Note the advantages and disadvantages of spectra line mentioned above.

Carry all rescue gear in a dry bag so that 1) it will last longer, and 2) it will not get wet and heavy.

Always carry a knife so that you can cut a rope in the event of entanglement.

Check your rescue gear at the beginning of each season- look for abrasions in the webbing and prussic cords, check your biner gates and pulleys to be sure they operate smoothly and will not bind.

My kit:

75 ft throw bag
2 prussic cords
2 locking biners
2 12mm pulleys
1 regular biner
15 feet webbing
Duct Tape

Here’s hoping I never have to use it...

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Old 05-24-2008   #13
Ashtabula, Ohio
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5
Carabiner, my take

New to kayaking and to this forum, but I thought I would throw in my 2-cents. I have been rafting and canoeing on moving rivers for 5+ years. I am a firefighter by trade who has been trained in water rescue and rope rescue. Also, I am a mountaineer and have a different perspective on carabiners and their use in water rescue.
Personally, I have 4 oval wire gated carabiners attached to my PFD (Astral Tempo, I believe). They are attached on a waist strap under my arm with the gates oriented inwards to prevent them from being accidentally clipped. The strap they are attached to is wide enough that the biners are unable to rotate around. I would never carry them in any fashion where the gates could possibly be exposed. In my case the strap works, if it did not, I would carry them in a pocket.
I prefer the wiregate for several reasons. They are light, stronger than traditional biners, not susceptible to gate whip, and much less prone to getting gummed up with dirt. I am not opposed to locking-biners. I just find them more time consuming to use.
Hey, whiel we are on the topic, how many peole still use a double or triple wrapped prusik for a friction not in a mechanical advantage system? Take a few minutes to Google and check out the Klemheist.
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Old 05-24-2008   #14
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 683
This is interesting on the type of biners everyone uses. Especially with the wire gated ones. When I took SWR with Mike Mather last year he pretty much recommends using locking biners for everything.....reason being especially on how they are carried on your person. If they are being put on your PFD or a belt and are not locking like SCHASE said they could accidentially clip to something unintended, but also if that gate is not locked and your body hits something (boat, rock, etc) where that biner is in the right orientation that hook can easily embed itself right into you. He had some pretty gruesome sorries about people being stabbed with unlocked biner hooks. just another thought....
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Old 05-24-2008   #15
I'm right 50% of the time
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Paddling Since: 1977
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 857
Personally, I like the klemheist better. Pre-sewn webbing loops rated for 3.5kn and a biner work with more rope variations. They can be used with 11mil static or with a standard throw rope. I keep 2 prussic cords in my life vest and 2 loops (wrapped w/ electrical tape) on a biner attached to my vest. A length of webbing 10 to 15 feet.
A couple locking d biners (3 to 4) and couple standard d's and a couple ovals. 2 pulleys and a biner pulley (plastic piece that acts as a pulley, can only be used with standard ovals... load rating is not that great) Some on me, some in the boat. clink clank..clink clank

Trying to keep most of your gear in pockets or on your vest means it will be with you when you swim.

I wish a company like salamander made their waist throw bag with an extra pocket or 2 for pulleys and prussic loops.

Google zdrad does not pull up much. instead look at mechanical advantage or ma 3 to 1.

Check out these links as well:

Simple Machines -- Mechanical Advantage

Tech Tip: Simple Pulley Systems - Guiding Newsletter - August 2002
Claimer: Someone that makes a claim that they have been there and done that, can do anything you can do better than you. I hate "claimers"
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Old 05-25-2008   #16
Boulder, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 130
Pin kit:

Webbing, two locking binners, two pulleys, two prussiks, two mechanical breaks (ropemen). Throw bag.

Normally I have a sabercut saw (a hand "chainsaw") -- currently mine is MIA and I have a new one on order.

Around my waist (under my drysuit, but over the spay skirt), two prussiks and two locking binners.

Waist throw bag.
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Old 05-25-2008   #17
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185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
Paddling Since: 1864
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 917
Two locking biners, two prussiks, two pulleys,webbing, two Petzel Tiblocs (check these out, they are way better than prussiks and can handles many sizes of rope, and they are small, relatively light, simple)
I also keep two spare locking biners on my backband, and one on my pfd. It always seems like you can never have too many biners.
970-217-21 six six
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Old 05-25-2008   #18
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by mike a View Post
Last I heard Wildwasser of Boulder made a great kit that has pretty much all the equipment you need for a pin kit. It looks really slick. If I was starting over, no question I would purchase it. No affiliation either. Instead of prussiks, it uses a mechanical brake that is foolproof.
I saw one of these last year and I completely agree, totally badass setup. everything you need in a nice carry bag. it has great anchor webbing with loops all over it to create an anchor any size you need. i'm going to get one soon as i can get up there.

"I would drag my balls across broken glass just to hear her fart into a walkie talkie" -Jay Drury
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