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Old 05-29-2007   #11
on your sister, ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by ecarlson972 View Post
Be nice and be on your way.
Fuck that! Poop in their cooler!

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Old 05-29-2007   #12
Livingston's Avatar
Denver, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 679
Don't rely on Karma, you might as well pray. Deal with it redneck style.

"I think I handled my alcohol pretty well considering how drunk I was." -Cousin Dan
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Old 05-29-2007   #13
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 80
NM culture at the Ruins

Absolutely knew this would end up as some whinning MTN Buzz post. People are forgetting how to communicate face to face. I am not going to argue "what really happened"...someone else can do that if they want to.

However, in an effort to reduce future incidents and ruined weekends I instead offer this as a consideration for future paddlers travelling to NM as it does indeed have a distinct boating culture. It is a much much smaller paddling and more communal group of friends down there. Everyone knows one another and "mine" and "yours" means a lot less.

The "Ruins" has long long long been an informal and free paddler hang out. The local paddlers are there nearly every weekend from March to October. There is one formal fire pit on the top of the small mesa and it has been the "meeting place" for the community for decades. (The BLM turned it into a fee area just this past winter with much protest from the local paddling community.) There are many private camp sites just below the mesa top where people wanting more privacy usually camp, especially along the Rio Pueblo. In fact, those sites are much much nicer than the mesa top. There is also a multitude of other much nicer camping areas along the river nearby, the top of the gorge, the forest, etc.

The mesa top/"ruins" is THE traditional gathering area of locals. Whoever shows up first lights the fire and all partake. It is a VERY social place. If you don't want to be social and you prefer your space, it is not the best place to camp. If you want to meet local paddlers (and in this case a lot of other out of staters too), you go up there, squeeze in, have a beer and talk about boating. If you are the go to bed early type, camp as far from the fire pit as possible.

In this case, there was a distinctive clash of two worlds - one that staked out territory and one that did not believe that territory could/should be staked out. If you know much about NM, you would now this is an ongoing cultural issue there.

Personally, I will be sad when NM is as big, crowded and anonymous as everywhere else. I can see the future of calling in to reserve spaces and telling your paddling friends "we are in camp #10". There will be no locals area where everyone is welcome to squeeze in as long as they are willing to share a living room. And perhaps that is an entitlement. But for now, I will treasure there is one place I know I can show up at anytime, any weekend, and run into old friends.

With all that said, sorry your weekend was apparently ruined. If we paddlers cannot make peace amongst each other, does not give me much hope for the world.
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Old 05-29-2007   #14
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 25
oh - well, if you were on hotel hill by the TJ bridge that changes things - maybe it wasnt cool to burn your wood if you brought it - but there is sometimes just wood left there - and you didnt mention if they were boaters?
they probably thought they would know you if you were at that location.
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Old 05-29-2007   #15
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
flow, please dont start that up again.
"Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself." -Rumi
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Old 05-29-2007   #16
on your sister, ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 137
goldcamp... i take back what i said. thanks for leaving out the important details to make your case.

douche your mangina and stfu.
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Old 05-29-2007   #17
Spits Hot Fire
N. Cascades, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 978
Originally Posted by gh View Post
flow, please dont start that up again.

Sarcasm, mofo....Do you speak it!?

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Old 05-29-2007   #18
Caspian's Avatar
Englewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1978
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 882
That's crap. It was said in the Escalante drama thread by someone else and I'll repeat it: Your rights end where someone else's begin. If you want to do as you please ALL the time, get your own land. The BLM and FS lands you share with the rest of the people who pay taxes and your traditions don't mean jack to them - YOU go find another spot to camp. Learn to be civil when on PUBLIC land.
Join up, suckas.

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Kierkegaard
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Old 05-29-2007   #19
ecarlson972's Avatar
Summit, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 288
This is to Moshe

First off no matter what your tradition is in N.M. or anywhere else in the U.S. BLM land is meant for everyone. Just because you and your drunk buddys did not get there in time to secure your campsite does not mean that you can take it over. Blm land is for everyone to share. If you want that spot so bad you better send someone up there sooner to secure it instead of stealling it. And your statement about peace amongst paddlers you are the one creating problems!!!!
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Old 05-29-2007   #20
on your sister, ...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 137 if you showed up at frog rock on the ark early, pitched a tent and then threw a hissy when other people showed up to camp then you would be pissed? C'mon, get real. A million other places nearby where your privacy would be repected. Same kind of deal moshe is talking about.

goldcamp is just clueless.

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