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Old 07-14-2009   #21
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42

Originally Posted by Riparian View Post
Personally, I would have taken the stove and chair as someone "reserving" the spot. Sadly for you, the person "reserving" the spot was crazed. Glad it didn't end up any crazier than it did.
When I worked to defuse the situation, I specifically apologized and said that if I had misread her "symbol" (as she called it), then I had made a mistake, but her reaction was "over the top" in relation to the perceived affrontal, and "we can work this out reasonably."

That being said, I'd like to clarify that her chair was NOT in one of the camping spots. It was set directly in an unloading path, about 10 feet from the nearest spot, of which there was at least two in the area, and it was also equidistant to a fire pit. There was a group of Oklahomans down the way (they were not there to ask when I arrived but a truck was there) so I thought maybe they had left their chair there the night before.

To be clear: Her explanation was that the CHAIR and STOVE alone reserved THE ENTIRE CAMPGROUND. I definitely thought that was "unorthodox" to say the least. I've camped in many, many "first-come, first-serve" locations and the rule of thumb is: if you want a spot, you have to at least put gear in that one spot. You can't put something in spot A and say that spot B through Z are also "covered". That's what she claimed.

As for my wife being a "pussy", that was a funny remark, I wasn't offended, but in spite of her normally demure demeanor and small size, she has the heart of a lion... she was in no rush to pull her gun, but I could tell that if that woman's physical assault were redirected from our gear toward one of us, she definitely would have pulled the gun.

And to the person who said she could get in trouble for pulling the weapon: if she felt physically endangered, or that her family was, then she would have been justified and would NOT have been prosecuted.

As for the comment about "concealed carry": it was an OPEN carry situation; her gun was in a holster on a belt, visible to anyone who took the time to look. Open carry is perfectly legal in Colorado, especially in wilderness and semi-wilderness public areas such as this particular campground.

Lessons learned:
1) I'll definitely make sure my wife continues to open carry when I'm out on the river. If I'm not there to protect her, I want her to be safe, and a gun is the best equalizer. It's sad we have to think that way, but that's reality.
2) Although I may have invaded her space, the woman's reaction WAS exaggerated.
3) Next time we'll give some more space away from any equipment that is left, however, a chair next to a fire pit or in a path should not be considered "sufficient claim" for a camping spot not clearly marked as "taken".
4) I think I was right to not react physically, even though I was greatly tempted to throw her in the river (that thought--and others--did occur to me). It had even occured to me to throw her stove into the river in retaliation.
5) I think I prevailed because I relied upon the general good nature of the boating community. My assumption was that her boating friends would be appalled by her aggression and violence, not to mention verbal abuse, and I was right. It was they, not I, who eventually convinced her that she was out of line. Boaters are generally a peaceful and friendly community, and I'd like to thank the ones who quietly rebuked her behavior and saved the day.

Thanks, everyone, for your input. I feel better knowing that most of you agree that, even if I had made a mistake, the reaction was unwarranted.

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Old 07-14-2009   #22
Indian Hills, Colorado
Paddling Since: NA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 20
If there is (any) gear at a campsite I would say pick another site. You just never know who your site-mates will be and apparently as you learned not everyone is into sharing a site, no matter how big it is.
Plus, I think it is kind of rude to intrude on someones camp, even if you think it is 'big' enough for you all, could you really not find another spot? Why would you want to risk camping with totally nut jobs with your kids around?

We were camped in a spot off 375 in BV over the 4th, had a lot of room and there were about 7 of us camped there. We had a number of tents and charis set up, there was no question that this site was being used.

One morning a big RV with a trailer and his buddy just pulled into our site and parked...didn't ask...just parked like there was nobody there and proceeded to unload and leave running a 4wheeler and a dirt bike while they finished setting was loud and totally obnoxious considering that there is a huge staging area for 'these' types of activities a few short turns down the road.

They intruded on our peaceful camp and I was pissed! We had to grab our dogs and throw them in the back of the truck because we could no longer let them roam free with these people and we had to listen to an RV generator even after they were on their way on the dirt bike and 4wheeler...We let them know that this was a camp site that was being used but they didn't seem to care-

Boo to camp poachers...Find your own spot, especailly if you had an agro dog and kids and your wife is packin heat.

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Old 07-14-2009   #23
Golden, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,012
Originally Posted by bluesky View Post
Funny thing is, a guy can be a "dick" at the same time he's being a "pussy," a truly mind-bending anatomical feat.
This might clear things up... from the source of all wisdom... Team America World Police..

We're dicks! We're reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the Film Actors Guild are pussies. And Kim Jong Il is an asshole. Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!
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Old 07-14-2009   #24
Oak Creek, CO (noon bell, bitches), Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 83
I think it is pretty crazy that you have your wife carry a gun in this situation. Is cooking dinner with your kids and yourself and other boaters and dogs around really meriting the gun? why not lock it in the car? I understand if you are out in the middle of nowhere, but... If I showed up to that campsite and saw your wife walking around with a gun with your two kids, with lots of other campers and dogs abound, I don't know how comfortable that would make me at all.
Just another reason to avoid the shit show disneyland that has become the Ark. Now featuring Moms with Guns. I just don't get this scenario.
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Old 07-14-2009   #25
Oak Creek, CO (noon bell, bitches), Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 83
Also, I don't mean any offense to you Yakmaker, whatever works for you, I guess I am missing the inherent danger that would make me want a gun while camping on the Ark. Different strokes, different folks.
I don't think the scenario calls for even considering pulling the gun out. Besides the lady being out of her tree, it doesn't seem that true danger was around the corner... again, I just don't get this.
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Old 07-14-2009   #26
Renaissance Redneck
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Huson, Montana
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 986
Originally Posted by catwoman View Post
I have always wondered why if pussy is such an insulting thing to be, men spend so much time chasing them.
It's a curse most of us must bear...
9 months trying to get out of one and the rest of our lives trying to get in to as many more as possible
"You're gonna be doin a lot of doobie rolling when youre LIVIN IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER"
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Old 07-14-2009   #27
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conifer, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 937
I knew it wouldn't take long for the buzzards to circle. Give the guy a freakin' break, no reason his wife can't legally carry unless you're an Obama supporter. I find it kind of sexy and would love to bang a lady wearing a side arm.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchhill
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Old 07-14-2009   #28
Oak Creek, CO (noon bell, bitches), Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 83
Right, and I knew that was coming too. My question was why here. Forget it. I withdraw my question and comment.
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Old 07-14-2009   #29
V for Victory
9300ft, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 329
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OP: Your wife has a cool head and this is one of the few situations where OC is a great idea.

If I were you, I'd have called the cops and gotten the psycho lady on a disorderly conduct and destruction of property.

Originally Posted by bigwoodyfoot View Post
You my have been right or wrong, hard to say! More communication was probably necessary. But, unless this woman was the size of Jabba the Hut, she didn't need that much space. After all my years in the wilds of Colorado, I'm going to say you were in the right. But then you have to ask yourself, would you really want to camp near this fine example of a human? I'd opt for a more rural area, away from the Cherry Creek Attitude.

As for the woman, I'd like to let her know, as a physician, that they do have medication for PMS or whatever her dysfunction happens to be.

And then I'd offer her another gem of wisdom from a Colorado Native....STAY HOME!!!!

As for yourself...I'm sorry you had to run into my ex! I really did think she had moved to Alaska and things were safe here!!

Please assure the kids that there still are some good people in the world
Funniest post in the thread!
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Old 07-14-2009   #30
Littleton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 263
Well, I have to say that ever since that poor USGS geologist was killed out in Fairplay, you better believe I have a firearm with me camping--not nec. open carry--although out in more remote places, I do. while I certainly don't look for opportunities to use--don't even mention/show it in group camp situations--I would just much rather have one and not need one, than need one and not have one.

tough call Yak--While someone obviously left gear to represent some type of "claim", I would have to agree with you that a chair in the path and a stove on a table does not constitute a claim on the entire area--especially if it's as large as you say--but then considering what happened in hindsight, the better choice would obviously have been to move on to a 100% unclaimed spot.

about the dog issue, well, there are plenty of threads out there discussing that one--bottom line for me is, if a dog is not 100% mellow/obedient 100% of the time--pretty rare, then the owner needs to be 100% on top of the dog's activity off leash 100% of the time--again pretty rare unfortunately--not to dis those responsible owners out there, mind you...sounds like the woman wasn't in control of her dog.

It's a shame too though, because 9 out of 10 or maybe even 999 out of a thousand, would have been happy to meet you, and share stories and a campfire and beers for the evening, but you definitely won the booby-prize that night...

...and I try my darndest not to be either a pussy or a dick!

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