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Old 07-15-2009   #91
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post
First, I was appalled to read the following assertion:

While I never post here encouraging illegal drug use, and I am probably toeing the line with this comment, a little marijuana in this situation would have made a world of difference.

Personally I would have loved to watch this situation unfold. Some crazy woman attacking and yelling at some man while that mans children cry and his wife waves around a piece. It seems like something out of a Norman Rockefeller painting.

The entire situation with your wife going into the woods armed to the teeth for "protection" seems absurd. The fact that she feels the need to defend herself in the backcountry, if the land along the Ark qualifies, speaks simply of a general discomfort with nature. Many, many people walk around crumby parts of cities without guns, at night, everyday and don't get killed, or bothered in the least. The chances of some sort of Vietnam style ambush along the Ark are slim to none. Besides, do you really want us calling your wife Dirty Harriet?

If your wife had shot that lady, however crazy she may have been, she would be going to jail for a long, long time. It would not have been a self defense issue because a) she was not on here own property and b) she would have made no effort to simply pack up and leave, avoiding violent confrontation. Apart from legal issues, do you really want to have your children see mommy clip some other lady? Thats years of expensive therapy right there that could otherwise be invested in paddling expeditions. Or expensive designer drugs.

As for the fact that your woman "likes to have the gun to protect herself when you're not around," does she also wear a burqua? Is it still opaque when wet?
I'm not sure but the lady involved was drunk or high...probably not on pot, judging by her actions, but you never know. Or, she was OFF her meds, also likely.

My wife wasn't "waving a gun", can you read?
As for the burqa comment, kiss my @##. Not called for.
It's not nature, but people who are the most dangerous and unpredictable issues out there. But anyone who has the idea that mountain lions are not a potential risk is just ignorant. I live in the mountains, we have lions in our area, and although the risk is 'minimal', it only takes ONCE. Same goes for human predators, also.

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Old 07-15-2009   #92
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42
what's the rule in that case?

Originally Posted by class 3 felon View Post
I was up on Pimphouse a few weeks back when a couple guys rowed across the river from a primo camp site under a big pine across the river from the boat ramp. I started talking to them and they said the tents at the site weren't their's but whoever put them up was doing the "reserve it thing"for use on later days. When no one showed up they just said fuck-it with setting up their tents and used the two already there, that's funny. Now that's irony-setting up a tent so you can reserve a site for yourself but someone else actually is using your tent.
That just seems like bullshit to me. set up tents to reserve a spot for days in advance?! Talk about not sharing the limited resource.
I don't agree with using their tents. That's a potential problem, right there.
Now imagine that the guys show up drunk and aggro and start going off on them. TOTALLY within the realm of possibilities. Imagine that the guy is away when it happens and they are physically threatening the woman.

And some folks think it's irresponsible for her to be armed. scoff.

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Old 07-15-2009   #93
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by BoilermakerU View Post
Oooo! That's a sweet idea! Now we can get into squatters rights and all other kinds of debates with this! LOL I think that's hilarious though, whoever put them there deserved it if that's what's going on. I guess I am glad i haven't done a lot of camping as of late. I'd hate to have to deal with all this, I'd lose my mind trying to figure out all of the un-written "rules".

I have to agree with the few latest posts on this, I don't think you should really be able to reserve a spot:

a) any earlier than the same day you are going to actually occupy it
b) unless you have at least one person there in person
c) there is a formal reservation policy and mechanism set up for the site (sign-up list or something).

I have to say, this thread has given me some great ideas for future camping trips. If I come across "reserved" camp sites, I guarantee you there will be no evidence of the "reservation" by the time I am done setting up camp. If there's nobody there to claim the chair and stove (I'd certainly check around and make sure), then it's either MINE (locked away in my trunk for the NEXT trip), or it disappears in a dumpster somewhere along my journey. When that person comes back to "claim" their site, I just say "What chair and stove?".
I like your sense of humor. Thanks for the laugh.

You know, if you go to any forest service site that is "first come first serve", you can reserve a spot with gear, but it's better to set up a tent. but you can't reserve ALL the spots in the campground with gear in ONE spot. The ranger would never allow it. And never setting things up days in advance. You'd have to pay for every day the spot is 'reserved' or 'taken', regardless.
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Old 07-15-2009   #94
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42
answer to mr compassionate

Originally Posted by mr. compassionate View Post
Hypothetical question, does an open groover with the seal broken sitting in the middle of camp constitute a legit reservations or do other camping accoutrements also have to be present?
In my book, ANY gear actually IN THE SITE would have been enough.

they didn't have their gear IN the site where we camped.

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Old 07-15-2009   #95
thornton, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1969
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 600
Yakinsmaaker to make a long story (forum) short, you are right that lady was full of BS. Gun or no gun.( I carry too, four X wife's)
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Old 07-15-2009   #96
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42

Originally Posted by leo_amore View Post
I have had a couple of similar though less confrontational camping situations but the one that convinced us to buy a handgun went as follows. My bride to be and I were turning off of I-70 in Clifton one weekend on a camping trip to nowhere in particular. Well I typically drive just a little over the speed limit, in this case 55 on a 50 mile an hour ramp, and an a old white dodge van rode my ass all the way off the ramp. I know I shouldn't have, but I flipped him off as he sped by us. He pulls up next to me at the traffic light and waves a machete out the window at me and tells us "THAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO FUCK WITH ME". He then proceeds to follow us down hwy 50, then down the first road we turned off on (can't remember where at this point, but for at least 45 min.) and finally went a different direction. Needless to say we got no sleep that night, even with the dog in the tent watching out.
I have been hunting since I was a kid (wait...did I just suggest that I may not be a kid anymore?!) and have several long guns. I never really wanted a handgun, in my opinion they are built for one purpose, but we now keep one in our camp most of the time. I don't carry, but will probably get a concealed carry permit within the year.
It's a choice, but with a lot of responsibility.
WE DIDn't own or carry guns for a long time. Nothing against it, I hunted as a kid also, but I just didn't have any. I inherited the pistol, and for a while it was just locked up in the lock box. but when I started taking my wife along when I went boating and she sat alone in the camp ground, I thought maybe it was a good idea. then one day by the colorado, a guy in a van just came down by her, got out, and sort of "hung around" by her until he noticed the pistol on her belt.

then he got in his van and left.

From then on, the gun goes with her on ALL camping trips, even if I'm there.

For anyone who hates guns, get used to it. She wants to get her concealed carry license and keep it with her in town also.
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Old 07-15-2009   #97
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42
my wife's friend was murdered in a situation like that

Originally Posted by carvedog View Post
You taking a beating in front of your kids is not a violent confrontation?
I have two daughters and I am teaching them the only acceptable time to "hit" is when you are being threatened, assaulted, someone tries to pick you up etc. And I am teaching them to fight dirty too. Number one is kick the guy in the balls as hard as you can. Maybe not the way some parent but......there we are. I would rather have them do this than lay down like an old tired dog.

This is a great clip that appears to be real. A couple of Canadian rednecks get a little surprise out in the woods. Cut to about 4 mins for the action.
Her best friend's brother was murdered in a situation like this one. The guys attacked his car, he didn't have a loaded gun, they did. They killed him.

So to the guy who said that maybe the gun just exacerbates the situation, that's not always true. Sometimes it's just kill or be killed.

I know where I'd rather be in that equation, and it ain't DEAD.
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Old 07-15-2009   #98
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42
liberal, learn to read

Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
Sorry guys - this liberal boater does not understand the need for the wife to be openly carrying a firearm at the campsite. The Ark ain't Dodge City & a verbal BS confrontation with some irritable woman at the campsite could have easily gone from bad to worse in front of your kids if the gun had been pulled.

I don't care if the crazy lady is bigger than your wife, or her boyfriends bigger than you. Don't bring a gun to a shouting match. I would rather take a beating in front of my kids any day, than have them witness a killing over some BS. If my kids are around, I hope I will always back down and kiss some ass to avoid any sort of violent confrontation in front of them.
We didn't bring a gun to a shouting match. SHE brought a shouting match to a person with a gun. Point is: she was an idiot who could have gotten killed if she had gotten violent with my wife. Fortunately, we defused it.

So, your choice to have your ass beat in front of your kids is your choice. Kind of stupid, I think. Let's see, what's the lesson? Mommy or Daddy got beat up and injured because either A) they wouldn't or B) couldn't defend themselves, camping is very dangerous, and it's better to not go camping.

The lesson actually learned was that Mommy and Daddy calmly responded to a bully and defused the situation, without violence, even though they were ready to defend themselves.

the other possible lesson? mommy or daddy were attacked by some crazies that got violent over a misunderstanding, and instead of letting mommy or daddy get injured, they defended themselves with a firearm.

Thank God Libs like you were not present in 1776. The Brits would have raped your wife, burnt your home down, all while you begged for mercy, and we'd still be part of a commonwealth, instead of a free and great nation.

By the way, did you know that there is more gun violence per capita in England AFTER all the gun control laws, than before them?

As gun owners know: "it's amazing how polite people will be when everyone is armed." Word up.
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Old 07-15-2009   #99
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 42
thanks raymo

Originally Posted by raymo View Post
Yakinsmaaker to make a long story (forum) short, you are right that lady was full of BS. Gun or no gun.( I carry too four X wife's)
I posted this story because I regret the confrontation and wanted to know if we had been totally wrong to assume that an empty spot was empty, or if a chair in a path indicates that the entire campground belongs to a group that is not present. I didn't and still don't think it does.

I only mentioned the gun part of it because I wanted other people to think twice before going nuts on strangers. I would NEVER want this story to end in violence, but YES I'll kill anyone who threatens my wife or kids.

In this case...the lady wisely didn't cross the line. THIS time. I hope she learned a lesson, also, that her crazy behavior wasn't productive.

If we'd have fled, the bully would have had her behavior rewarded and she'd be likely to repeat--maybe one of you would be her next experiment.

stay safe people, be kind to each other, even if you think someone has violated your space, start off nice and see if it works. As my momma always said:

You attract more bees with honey than you do with vinegar.
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Old 07-15-2009   #100
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 123
One of my stories...

My wife and I had been camping below Yarmony for a couple of nights leading up to our fifth anniversary with friends. the night of our actual anniversary we dropped people off at Rancho and put back in at Pumphouse for a relaxing, romantic float back to our camp for all the goodness that five happy years is due to you. When we got back to camp, there were 3 commercial boats with 10 (at least) kids running around our stuff setting up tents and their kitchen next to ours, playing games at the picnic table and laying out on the beach. My wife was beside herself needless to say. And I have to say that I honestly felt bad (good catholic upbringing...) but I kicked 'em out of our camp. It took them over an hour to pack up and leave.
If they had been there, gear still packed when we had gotten there and asked if they could share the camp site, we would have shared (maybe reluctantly given the occasion). We had that discussion around the fire that night.
I have also set up camp stayed a night (in our popup camper) and used it as a base camp for further explorations (or taking a sick kid home in the middle of the night) and not been back to that campsite for a couple of days. Hopefully that is not justification for stealing or trashing our stuff.

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