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Old 10-31-2008   #11
Beardance42's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1989
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 238
This is the same straw man people use for drilling ODCS and ANWR - it "reduces our dependency on foreign oil". More Sarah Palin mythology.

No it doesn't. It put cheaper-to-obtain oil in the hands of the oil companies, who sell it on the open market for a profit. The oil companies have 4 million acres of leased land in Utah alone that they haven't exploited. Until they pass a law that keeps every drop of US recovered oil within American borders, this "reducing our dependence" stuff is bull. The only way we stop being dependent on foreign oil is to transfiorm our economy onto renewable energies, and away from fossil fuels. Flattening every canyon or building roads and rigs in every draw or cutting down every forest doesn't change that - it just leaves us a dessicated and barren environment to live in when we get hit with the inevitable.

I vote they be forced to exhaust and clean up every single lease already granted before they start drilling and road building and otherwise flattening wild and scenic river corridors.

I live in Boulder, too, and I've been down Desolation 12 times. I'm not going to apologize for driving my truck to float down rivers, and I'm not going to equate driving my truck with the implicit approval to permanently wreck unique, fragile and irreplaceable wild lands.

The put in and take out are paid for by my permit fees and funds derived from recycled beer cans. I've paid for those. The resource recovery companies won't do anything to Deso/Nine Mile except trash it.

There are, anyway, dozens (if not hundreds) of rigs already standing on the plateau, which is essentially endless BLM wasteland. The proposal is to drill in Nine Mile Canyon and within sight and earshot of the river itself.

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Old 10-31-2008   #12
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Boulder, Colorado
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Dunno what happened to your response, Mike, but....

ANALYSIS-US oil firms seek drilling access, but exports soar | Markets | Reuters
WASHINGTON, July 3 (Reuters) - While the U.S. oil industry wants access to more federal lands to help reduce reliance on foreign suppliers, American-based companies are shipping record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.
A record 1.6 million barrels a day in U.S. refined petroleum products were exported during the first four months of this year, up 33 percent from 1.2 million barrels a day over the same period in 2007. Shipments this February topped 1.8 million barrels a day for the first time during any month, according to final numbers from the Energy Department.
The surge in exports appears to contradict the pleas from the U.S. oil industry and the Bush administration for Congress to open more offshore waters and Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling.

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Old 10-31-2008   #13
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Bozeman, Montana
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the oil companies are selling to countries willing to pay top dollar.
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Old 10-31-2008   #14
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Durango, Colorado
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But if "drill, baby, drill" doesn't directly benefit the United States, only the oil companies, then why would we trash a wilderness area to sell the oil to a foreign country?
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Old 10-31-2008   #15
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Bozeman, Montana
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that is something that your state governor would have to do. but to top it off your governor doesn't want any drilling in the state of colorado. period
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Old 10-31-2008   #16
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Denver, Colorado
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I'm all for some sort of balanced management. But having grown up there it's not a total wasteland, and just because you can't see it from the river doesn't mean we should just say f%#$ it and drill. Plus there's other issues like roads, water use and wastewater that will end up in the Green. I don't have the solution, I drive to the river to boat and I'm gonna' keep boating. If I have to pay more than I will (and I'm not exactly rich). Maybe we should try diplomacy instead of military imperialism to try and secure our needs...it might last longer than making a bunch of people pissed that we're in their country and could care less about them other than what they can give us.
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Old 10-31-2008   #17
FoCo,NoCo, Colorado
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 280
Our dependency on foreign oil. That is going to happen anyway. If we aren't dependent on foreign oil, it will be something else like foreign cheap labor, or foreign loans. Like Stubby says we need to learn to get along...
Gas SHOULD be expensive. We have never payed the true price of gas. Which means we never externalized the costs to our environment, our national pride, safety, sanity.
No. It is not worth sacrificing another portion of wilderness for another oil rig. Where does the insanity and gluttony stop?
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Old 10-31-2008   #18
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SE, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1986
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I'm a boater and don't drive gas guzzlers (have a Honda Insight 60 mpg and a Honda CRV that gets 30 mpg and 25 mpg with a trailer). I limit my long-distance travels and do most of my boating close to home. So your guilt trip doesn't fly with me— I think there's way too much drilling now and the standards are way too loose.

I just did a Deso trip, and the drilling plague has spread since my last one, in 2005. They are really f-ing up that desert something awful. Roads are slashed all over the place, with zero erosion control or reclamation. They are going full bore while Bush is still in office and trying to grab still more. Going into Sand Wash we had to dodge a lot of oilfield traffic and the truckers are worse than log truck drivers— flash their brights to blind you and damn near run you off the road.

After getting back I dug a trench to lay cable for another solar array (we have one set up). Pretty tired of the corrupting influence of big oil on US politics, via Cheney and the rest of his gang. Millions of decent working people are going broke while Exxon/Mobil, Chevron, BP and the rest are raking it in.

You seem to resent people in Boulder CO driving. So— what do you drive, amigo? Care to post your mpg?
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Old 11-01-2008   #19
Missoula, Montana
Paddling Since: 1975
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10
GO Green now

I gotta say bull to Drill Baby Drill. You can convert YOUR vehicle to a hybrid today! My Toyota truck has seen a 35% increase gas mileage and over 50% decrease in emissions. The answer isn't to give up our wild spaces because you can't see the oil rigs from the water. Here in Montana they like to leave a swath of trees along the road while clear cutting "out of view of the river". Take a look at Nelsons Hydro-Gen home page for information on how to convert your rig to a hydrogen hybrid. We are going to run out of oil. Let's look to other alternatives that are cleaner and renewable.
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Old 11-01-2008   #20
God Amongst Men
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Phuoc My, Da Nang, THE 'NAM
Paddling Since: 1845
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,988
they should cordon off 9 mile, but the rest of that country is a fuckin wastelend.

drill it all, fuck applying for permits, lets just open the gates and let em drill, i say

whats eastern utah ever done for you

"Don't f$&@ing eddy out, just run it! Whaddya doin??" -LMyers
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