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Old 06-13-2007   #21
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
strong kingpins

i think dagger makes great boats i haven't had one crack i rolled a car over my kingpin icon(demo edition) in a car the only thing that broke was the front d bar and i fixed that witha shit load of thick foam. boofed, splatted, triple oilcanned, 40' bridges, grinding, loop on to rocks, thrown down hills, seal launches, manky mank, creeks and left it in the sun every summer and its on its 4th season retired it for a new agent! the kingpin is still one of the greatest all around performance kayaks to date!

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Old 06-13-2007   #22
COUNT's Avatar
Summit, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1996
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While I may not have the weight to outright break a boat in one hit, I have done serious damage to many boats in a matter of couple hard days (Method, Huck, Burn). My Pyranha is on it's 5th season, I believe, and is amazing. It does everything: creeking and hucking, big water, and I can playboat, loop, and throw flatwater moves in it. It's survived trips to Utah, Idaho, New Mexico, Arizona, Ontario, Quebec, and Mexico. I hit every splat, rock boof, slide and manky creek line I can find. My standards are lower than anyone's that I know of. I've paddled pretty much everything on Clear Creek under 150, Tenmile at half what most people consider minimum, the Ark well below Bonezone level, etc.etc. I've pitoned (forward and backward) super hard in it a number of times and pinned it underwater a couple times too. Swam out of a number times and watched the ensuing beating it took. Dragged it across of an old railroad bed of sharp igneous rocks 5K to get into the Upper Pet in Quebec. I try to take care of it but it has been left in the sun, snow, rain, and sub-zero temps numerous times. I've dropped it countless times (though it has never flown off of a car). I have not been nice to this boat. But it still doesn't leak. I think your average person should at least be able to get a second season out of a boat.


"The world would be a better place if everyone kayaked."-Brad Ludden (Valhalla)
"You only get one chance to run a drop blind."-DD
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Old 06-13-2007   #23
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Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 94
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1 boat in 16yrs? Jesus, you need to get out Don! I break 2/3 a yr. It's tough when Kayak companies show you these folks going huge, waterfalls, big rocky drops, ect.. Then most say, well that's not what the boat is intended to do. I like hearing that Jackson kayaks stands 100% by their product, although I've never tried their boat. Maybe I should. Boats are going to break, can't stop that. My question to companies would be, if it's under a yr. Give me a chance to buy a new hull at cost. Should be no problem if every boat that goes out the door isn't breaking. I mean it's good PR and everyone knows how good at pr I am, lol. I also say play boats should never be a warranty, cause if you breaking a play boat you're spending way to much time not kayaking.

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Old 06-13-2007   #24
pnw, Washington
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,404
I ripped a long gash in my Burn, Pyranha offered me a hull for cost. I decided to let the welder have a shot at it and he did a great job but was impressed with their response.
"Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself." -Rumi
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Old 06-13-2007   #25
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Originally Posted by gh View Post
I ripped a long gash in my Burn, Pyranha offered me a hull for cost. I decided to let the welder have a shot at it and he did a great job but was impressed with their response.
I currently have a long gash in my Wavesport Ace. Can you tell me who you used as the " Boat Welder"

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Old 06-13-2007   #26
pnw, Washington
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Affordable solutions

super clean job
"Yesterday I was clever and tried to change the world. Today I am wise and try to change myself." -Rumi
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Old 06-13-2007   #27
paddlebizzle's Avatar
Local, Colorado
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Derk said Igneous. I love engineers.
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Old 06-14-2007   #28
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Reno, Sierra Nevada
Paddling Since: 99?
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 32
I got hammerd on boatertalk re: a similar gripe. Regardless my opinion remains the same... but thought I would share as it more or less a similar thread. On a funny note one of my real life kayaking heros (no lie, I saw him on an old creeking vid and that vid was what made me want to learn to kayak) Clay W hammered me as well and advised me not to boat in Colorado. Pretty funny:
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Old 06-14-2007   #29
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Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Oct 2003
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I think this whole idea that all creekboats will break in Colorado and there's nothing the manufacturers can do about it is totally bogus. Everybody seems to agree that Saltos, Prijons, and old Wavesport crosslink boats last way longer than boats by the other manufacturers. Does anyone argue this point? If that's the case, then we either assume that Dagger, Wavesport, BS, Pyranha, LL, Jackson, etc. do not have access to this technology or they choose not to use it.

Seems to me it must be the latter. So why don't they choose to use it? I think there a few possible reasons: cost, environmental issues, planned obsolescence. Now you could argue that people have a choice to just buy Prijon or Eskimo, and obviously this isn't what everybody does. But people buy other boats because they want newer, better designs, or boats that fit their size or their style of boating. They buy the boats on good faith that the manufacturers are selling a boat that will not break under it's intended purposes.

If the manufacturers are *choosing* (and it IS a choice) to build a boat that cannot handle the intended purpose, they should own up to replacing broken boats.

How would you feel if the engine on your car died after a year, and the dealer said, oh you drive up a lot of mountains, that puts a lot of extra strain on your engine.

It's bullsh-t if you ask me. The technology is there to make stronger boats, so if they're not going to use it, they should be responsible for their broken boats .
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Old 06-14-2007   #30
Highlands Ranch, CO Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 482
wow golder that is a harsh little world over there at BT. I guess that is one reason I don't go to that site.

I do agree though that plastic will never hold up to the abuse of floating down a river full of rocks, but it would be cool if the manufacturers would be willing to part with a hull at cost. The reason they don't is because the outfitting is by far the cheapest component of your boat.

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