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Old 02-27-2011   #11
CO.rafter's Avatar
up in them thar hills, Colorado
Paddling Since: 07
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 142
Some time near the end of last summer a ranger told me that they were going to do that, they were handing out wag bags too, to start promoting the idea of have to have some sort of groove with you. She also said they were going to start tearing out the fire rings too, so bring your fire pan.
I hope this works to promote smart boaters, not lazy ones. We don't want to start seeing trash, ash, and poo all over the place.

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Old 02-27-2011   #12
CO.rafter's Avatar
up in them thar hills, Colorado
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Oh ya the ranger I was talking to was at the Pumphouse.

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Old 02-27-2011   #13
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Boulder, Colorado
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DSP, camping has and will still be per site. I think if you pay for camping you don't pay for the day use fee.

I've always thought fire rings were a nice feature at high use camps. It gets everyone to have their fire in the same spot, which hammers that spot harder, but seems better than each group hammering a different spot.

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Old 02-27-2011   #14
Eagle, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I volunteered 2 summers ago for the Federal Public Land clean up day on the Pumphouse to Rancho section. The ranger we were with was entering all the smaller less used fire pits into his GPS to possibly add more designated sites. That stretch of river gets hammered so I think the groover requirement is necessary. It would be nice to keep the designated fire pits in my opinion, but the two seem to go hand in hand in general as far as requirements go. I thought that Cottonwood was the only campsite that had vault toilets.
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Old 02-27-2011   #15
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Donkey Town, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 145
So your telling me that I will no longer be able to poop at pumphouse or radium without a groover? They are really taking out the nice shiters at the put-in/takeouts? That would suck! I have no problem caring a groover with me but if I can't roll up and do #2 upon arrival that would suck. Price increase is no problem $5 is cheap these days!
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Old 02-27-2011   #16
Andy H.'s Avatar
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
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Originally Posted by jimr View Post
So your telling me that I will no longer be able to poop at pumphouse or radium without a groover?
No, the developed areas like Pumphouse and Radium will stay the same. They're talking about the on-river campsites, many of which have vault toilets and fire rings.

Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 02-27-2011   #17
dillon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 281
I'm for having people carry groovers...no reason to have poop everywhere and lots of people camp there.
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Old 02-28-2011   #18
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 428
they should build a shitter next to gore rapid...
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Old 02-28-2011   #19
Dillon, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 29
The entire BLM Upper Colorado River business plan is posted on our web page.


Please go read it so you know all the information... I will try and answer some of the basic questions that have been posted.

The BLM proposes two changes to the current fee schedule. First, the BLM proposes changing the day-use fee from an expanded amenity fee to a standard amenity fee. All services are offered at both sites to comply with Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act (FLREA) for a standard amenity fee. This would allow greater use of America the Beautiful Passes. Changing the classification of the day use fee from an expanded amenity fee to a standard amenity fee would have minimal impact to overall fee revenue. The BLM estimates less than 200 visitors currently use the Interagency Passes at the two fee sites. Revenue loss as a result of the classification change would be less than $1,000 per year. The second proposed change is to increase the day-use fee from $3.00 to $4.00 for private users and from $1.00 to $1.25 for commercial users. This increase is an inflationary increase and would allow the BLM to continue to maintain the same level of visitor services.

All the money that is collected at both Pumphouse and Radium has to be used at these areas or management of these areas (e.g., repairs, maintenance, visitor services, law enforcement directly related to public use and recreation, direct cost associtated with collecting recreation fees, and support of volunteer and partnership projects). The new camp sites at Pumphouse, the new vault toilets (both at launch 2 and in the new camp area down river), the new boat slide at launch 2, the new boat slide at the Confluence Site (Gore put-in), and the new vault toilets at Confluence were all built with user fees (both private and commercial). This summer we are expanding the parking lot at launch 2 and expanding launch 3 so that three vehicles can be dropping boats at the same time. These two projects will also be paid with user fees.

As for the talk about toilets, groovers, and fire pans... The Upper Colorado sees over 60,000 visitors a year. We have seen an increase in both float-fishing and private users. The private users usually do overnight trips along the river. Many other rivers that have this visitation level, on such a small section of river, have made groovers and fire pans mandatory.

BLM Kremmling Field Office and Colorado River Valley Field Office (downriver of State Bridge) are currently going through the Resource Management Plan (RMP) Revision. We are looking for public input... On the same web page that is above, you will see a link that says "click here to be on our mailing list" for the Travel Management Plan (the Travel Management Plan is a part of the RMP). Please add your name and we will contact you when our public comment period opens. Many decisions about the Upper Colorado River as well as the rest of our field office will be the outcome of the RMP revision.

Just to clarify, vault toilets are at Confluence, Pumphouse, and Radium. Pit toilets are what are found along the river. We have decommissioned of those because they were full. Until the RMP revision is compete, we will not dig any new pit toilets or enforce groover or fire pan regulations because that is pre-decisional of the RMP Revision.

Please contact me with any additional questions.

Hannah Schechter
Outdoor Recreation Planner
(970) 724-3008 or hschechter@blm.gov
Hannah Schechter
Outdoor Recreation Planner
USDI BLM, Kremmling Field Office
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Old 02-28-2011   #20
Fraser, Colorado
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 45
Well, since nobody else has said it...

I fucking hate paying anything at all just to walk from the river to my truck to drive home. It was always enough of a challenge finding even $3 in cash just to park a vehicle at the take-out. Now we have to hope that there are another ten dimes lurking somewhere under the seat. Why can't there be fees for people who want amenities and freedom of travel for those who want nothing but the whitewater and a muddy pulloff to stash a vehicle?

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