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Old 09-12-2011   #31
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I'm going to be there as well. I'm going to leave my boat at home, and show up well dressed with some photos of what I'm fighting for, and alternative ideas that I believe are better.

Kyle McCutchen
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Old 09-12-2011   #32
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Golden, Colorado
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I second Canada's opinion that a bunch of routty boat bangers is counterproductive to stop expansion of the dam. Arm yourself's with solid information about the negative impact of the dam, the displacement of elk habitat, disruption of recreation, disruption of tourism, increased traffic in coal creek canyon. You can bet the proponents of the dam will have thier ducks in row with the myriad of reason they feel the dam is neccessary.

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Old 09-12-2011   #33
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
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Glad you all are coming! Do whatever you think is best to sway the County Commissioners opinions. What matters most is that we all play a part.

PS - Check out the front page article in today's Boulder Daily Camera!!

PPS - some folks are going to be there as both boat bangers AND as eloquent speakers on the pertinent subjects and speaking points
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Old 09-13-2011   #34
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Boulder, Colorado
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Pretty big turn out, though much more of Coal Creek resident, than a boater contingent.

Lots of eloquent speeches as well as some emotion.

The County Commissioners know that many of there contingent are very against it, and that it is a big sacrifice for Boulder with no upside, beyond those that appreciate Arvada's ability to sprawl.

I went in thinking this was a done deal, but maybe its not.

there were 2 speakers for the project: A Grand County Commissioner and a Lafayette Water manager, who says they get some guarantees of in-stream flow minimums for SBC to support fish, and of course his little Baseline lake.

Sounded like Grand County has been promised some upgrades to get them on board. Specifics not mentioned, beyond him saying they are on the G. County website.

The Boulder County commissioners have the power to stop this, if they are brave enough to do the right thing and support a legacy of conservation as opposed to supporting a legacy of destruction for other's developmental greed.

Fingers crossed.

(seven two 0)-298-2242
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Old 09-14-2011   #35
golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1992
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Big thanks to Kyle McCutchen, author of Whitewater of the Southern Rockies, and Dave and all the boaters who showed up to the public mtg. The level of knowledge about the Colorado River Basin waters and the RIMBY rapids within Boulder County gave an added depth to the discussion that was really interesting and thought provoking.

One of our community members overheard the county commissioners talking before the meeting started. They were amazed that there was an overflow crowd! We definitely succeeded in getting enough people there to make a big impact.

I second Dave's thoughts on the level of discourse. People's comments were amazing, inspiring, smart, and overwhelmingly reasonable!! If you weren't able to make the meeting, you can drop a line to the commissioners and let them know what you think: commissioners@bouldercounty.org.


peace and lizards,
~ liz
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Old 09-14-2011   #36
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
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Any more details from of what was said? Did the boating community oppose the enlargement only, or did the community support other options?

As I understand it, gross expansion was the favored alternative by environmental groups back when two forks dam was defeated. At the time enlarging gross was deemed to be a lower impact solution than flooding the south platte canyons. It seems to me that a key push for this is denver water's identified supply gap in the future and additional drought contingency that hasn't gone away.

My guess is that if gross enlargement doesn't go forward that some other means to get additional water supply will go forward which would likely be 1) buying up agriculture water rights, or 2) a new dam. Buying up agriculture water rights could significantly impact farmers and plains farming towns. A new dam would have signifacant impacts too.

One misconception I have heard is that some people think stopping water projects like gross will stop development and growth. This is untrue. Development (good or bad) will continue, and if projects like gross don't come forward, development will simply buy up agriculture water rights.

I'm not advocating or opposing gross expansion, I'm simply pointing out that if gross doesn't go forward, something else likely will. If you oppose gross, you might be implicity pushing something else forward.

In my opinion the best solution would be a western US regional strategy that looks at supply and demand across the west. I think that a mississippi river pipeline through the plains and to the front range would be able to supply the front range with water without drying and damming up rivers in the mountains. A mississippi pipeline project could also supply water the the plains where the Ogallala aquifer is drying up and will not support america's "breadbasket" indefinitely. This type of solution would enable colorado to minimize west slope diversions to the east slope and keep more water in basins that desparately need it. While we are at it, Cali needs major desalination plants to support its water needs.

I think we will be hosed in 50 yrs at the current piecemeal planning rate pitting city vs. city, county vs. couty, and state vs. state. The sad thing is that the money that was "unaccounted for" (ie lost or stolen) in the middle east wars could have fully funded a mississippi pipeline project. An extended severe drought could cripple the US west, and no one has a long term regional plan to address this.
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Old 09-14-2011   #37
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West of Boulder, Colorado
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I was at the meeting too, as well as, the Nederland meeting last winter.

Per Ian's comments, I was thinking the same thing this morning, if not this project, then what’s the next best option? Denver Water and the other Front Range water hogs are not going to stop their pursuit of more water and they seem to think they have done all they can in terms of water conservation. I would hate to see Two Forks come back in to play. The Gross expansion might be the best option?

There were many interesting statements made by the speakers. Three, not exact quotes that got my attention:

-Denverites/Front Range uses 86 gallons a day per person in comparison to Europe and Australia; by conserving water, they use 40 gallons a day per person.

-Another comment was half of the water used on the Front Range goes to watering grass.

-The majority of Denverites believe a green lawn is very important or highly desirable, something to that effect.

If these statements are factual, then I believe we have a long ways to go in education and conservation on the Front Range, before we need more water. This is where progressive Boulder County might be able to find a legal out and say enough is enough no expansion and make this an issue on a much larger scale? At least conservation would give us more time for a more comprehensive plan like a Mississippi pipeline.

I also read an article about a gravity water pipeline from a large flowing river in the Northwest to Colorado. I can’t find it, did anyone else read this article and can reference it? Edit Here it is: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...l=7&thispage=1
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Old 09-14-2011   #38
Denver, Colorado
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Intersting link AJ. Sounds like folks on the other side of the divide have been thinking of using columbia river water for the southwest. One quote from the article was key to me...

"When desert cities -- enduring record drought -- reach the breaking point, water will have to come from somewhere. And water in the West is largely a zero-sum game: For someone to get it, someone else will have to give it up."
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Old 09-14-2011   #39
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Another comment was half of the water used on the Front Range goes to watering grass
Wrong. 80% of water on the Front Range goes to farmers. 7% goes to industry. 13% goes to Residential, of which 4% goes to grass. I guess 4% is half of 13%.

Denverites/Front Range uses 86 gallons a day per person in comparison to Europe and Australia; by conserving water, they use 40 gallons a day per person
Yes, but ........ the average water use on the Western Slope is 110 gallons per person per day, and the average water use in the US is 130 gallons per person per day. Aren't statistics great?
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Old 09-14-2011   #40
Land of Lovin, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
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Seriously, the entire Western US system of irrigation farming needs to be revisited, the picture is much bigger than Gross expanding or the Front Range. This is an issue for all western states who utilize irrigation in farming, it is not sustainable in the long run. Even a pipeline will not prevent the over-salinization that occurs with any irrigation farming, within a few thousand years the ground will be too salty to grow plants. Welcome to Idiocracy and we didn't even have to use Brawndo.

Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too. - Voltaire
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