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Old 10-30-2012   #241
Land of Lovin, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,449
Well the BDP facebook page appears to have been made private, their team and friends pages on their site have been shut down too. Maybe a hint has been taken..

I'll let Lupe tell 'em


Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too. - Voltaire
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Old 10-30-2012   #242
BryanS.'s Avatar
Prineville, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
Song bad....... Message good!

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Old 10-30-2012   #243
Grif's Avatar
Buena Vista, Colorado
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 78
Aight I've had enuff! What teenaged boys don't act like reetards? It's the internets- lettum do what they want! Guns, beer, wimmen, weeds? Sounds like another day on the river fer 'ol Grif! Next time I'm gonna bring my camcorder and git famous too! I'm gonna git me a face book and send in some tapes of me shootin guns and smokin' summa that colorado kind weed. Those boys ain't seen stouts like I dun run when I'm messed up!
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Old 10-30-2012   #244
Summit County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 27
Today's research

Today, I have done some research. I usually like to take a quick minute to surf the web & see what's going on in my areas of interest... check out ski/kayak films in conjunction with yoga to apply physical, meditative practice with vision, then get into other subjects.

I have thought of things taught over the years, earlier on I read posts about respect for wilderness, the river as a teach, stewardship and what-not... yes of course, as much as we all love the subcultures we cherish.

I am an alumni at Colorado Mountain College; outdoors & ski business programs. I am back to complete a bachelors in sustainability. We have learned so many things that back up the point of tastefulness. So many people mentioned that the videos were distasteful. I researched the term "aesthetic" for an assignment, similar to "rhetoric", & "dialect". It comes from the 1800s term for "tastefulness" and has interesting and debatable philisophical connotations when coupled with morality. So much of the wilderness literature studied pertains to aesthetic "tastefulness" I am sure many kayakers can appreciate and are so often portrayed through cinematography.

I used the term "ski porn" the other day, and acted out when I was told I should be ashamed of myself with the many negative connotations porn indicates. These are the perversions produced by controversy I care to overcome & lend clarity to the authentic character of things. I can appreciate the bonding mentioned earlier on formed by these young men despite their obscenities. Now, you all know what I meant by ski porn... films following up yoga to reinforce mindframes crossing over to the river or slopes. I was overjoyed when the distinction was made between BDP as "tasteless" & Bombflow as "high-quality upscale kayak porn".

This so reminds me of the days when "hip hop with fresh lyrics & organic beats" came around... that intellectually stimulating masterful poetry.

Today, I found a film that backs up what it is to be a professional athlete, traveling internationally. These are the experiences that athletes, coaches, and parents aspire to in their pursuits traveling the world & taking active interest in these endeavors. There are so many similar things to draw from the kayaking community. We have had many terrific athletes & films. I know this is what our kayak academies care to offer, and what we are capable of!

Here are the reasons why this is so cool, tasteful, and what I really encourage in the movement of ambitious, talented kayakers filming (& traveling).

o “Cool” local ski family… you can tell the Dad (bro of the pros) stands his own; responsibilities & respect seem to matter in self-presentation; the athletes are charitably helping them gather wood for the winter & you see their honor in the way the Dad shows appreciation.
o Two women presented in movie represent respect for women
One is a DJ – gots skills
The other is stylish mother w/ baby girl

o Even the Funny scenes
§ Local guys saying names of known US rap stars & b-boxing to steezy shots
§ Ha ha hand symbols – thumbs locked like a bird (love to fly, probably; i.e. jumping)
§ – sounds kind of funny – teaching (probably locals) to hit jumps
· “Just take off & you’ll see the landing”
o Upscale, intelligent, tasteful audience
§ “evolve Chile” partnership
§ Probably an adept high end brand promoting affluent “cool” opportunities similar to vision of “World Class”… may I reference Dustin & his graduation with academic excellence at Princeton as the likely positioning for this? Even those not as interested in high-end ivy league academia who value intellect as well as worldly knowledge and talent in alternative (mtn.) sports.
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Old 10-30-2012   #245
Summit County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 27
Oh, I see people taking on my level of honesty. I appreciate it. I am working on my problems. Have been for a long time, am mostly focusing on going on with life, and have made mention of these issues. It took a long time, and was hard. I have gotten some really good advice from people that understand the turmoil of some party scenes as well as "better routes to go" mentioned earlier. I know there may be ways that I have been "questionable", yet more than anything from this entire debate I see clearly the importance to "let those bonds that keep us together be stronger than those that would pull us apart!" I have learned a lot about what it is to be a mentor, am grateful for both the 'boundaries and guidelines' of morality as well as the flexibility in what tolerance has been presented. In a cohesive way, every perspective put down here has so much value & relevance to the greater picture. I will never take sides completely. It's the many facets of a prism that make it so unique in showing the depth of character in a light ray with a full spectrum of colors. I have also been reading about the Nobel Peace Prize winner released from prison in November. She swears on meditation for overcoming turmoil. Returned to rule of Myanmar, she along with native Burmese activists escaping censors were discussed. I so greatly appreciate the openness and caring, guidance, decision-making, and community formed through this discussion. We have a unique thing here with the liberty of our country. This is the kind of a controversy that we can learn to accept our differences from while protecting and respecting rights. This is the kind of thread that makes me proud to be an American!
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Old 10-30-2012   #246
San Jose, CA, California
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 432
Dr. Gnar,

First, I want to thank you for taking the time to post. As a leader of the Bomb Flow crew. Its nice that you have spent some time reading what the people that look up to you and your friends have written about BDP.

When you wrote,

"We hope you see that most our antics are just childish, and really we are just trying to have a good time."

I think your right. We do know that you are just trying to have fun in the best way you know how. You are better at making films that are both socially appropriate and inspiring than, "Balls Deep Productions." Most of us also know that you grew up together.

That said, what we (the community that wants so badly to look up to good paddlers even if they are not sponsored) want is for the people that make up BDP to take some accountability and stop justifying their own negative and "childish" behaviors. We want them to act like leaders and adults in film and an on social media.

If they (BDP) are truly passionate about paddling, I would encourage them to fake their own maturity on social media and film not for them selves but for us the paddling community. Do it for the people that work 9 to 5 and what to watch a kayak film on their lunch break and be inspired not offended. Do for the parents that want to send their kids to WCKA. Do it for the paddlers that live their dream of paddling gnar through you but paddle grade III on the weekends. Again, if you love kayaking and believe that your friends at BDP love kayaking to please consider faking your adult hood, respect for others and leadership for us. Please be are hero's we need them.

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Old 10-30-2012   #247
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1
Ok so everyone is giving BDP and BFTV a bunch of hate on their treatment of women. Well, I'm a young female paddler who has had an opportunity to paddle with some of the guys on BDP and BFTV and I have never felt that they were degrading or rude to women. In fact, all of the guys I have had the chance to meet or paddle with have been extremely supportive of me as female boater no matter how short our encounter was. Not one of them had a single rude comment about women or female paddlers. They, like most teenagers/young adults that I have met, say things with sarcastic undertones which often are misread through the internet, such as their quote about Tits Deep. Teenagers are sarcastic and think things to be funny when they aren't. Yes, some of the scenes in Pleasure Strokes were offensive and inappropriate but this does not characterize who they are as people. It does give them a bad appearance and reputation but if you were to actually know and meet them you would see that they are not women hating men. Everyone here is trying to tell them to grow up but I think you all need to grow up a little too. If you don't like what they are doing, send THEM a message first. Don't go running to companies. Don't give them any support if you don't like what they say or do. Live and let live. Unless they are doing something against the law.
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Old 10-30-2012   #248
colorado_steve's Avatar
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by Grif View Post
Aight I've had enuff! What teenaged boys don't act like reetards? It's the internets- lettum do what they want! Guns, beer, wimmen, weeds? Sounds like another day on the river fer 'ol Grif! Next time I'm gonna bring my camcorder and git famous too! I'm gonna git me a face book and send in some tapes of me shootin guns and smokin' summa that colorado kind weed. Those boys ain't seen stouts like I dun run when I'm messed up!
its the return of grif!!!! just in the nick of time too
Oh! I don't take it lightly! I've always got to know
There's an old lion a roarin' n the river down below
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Old 10-30-2012   #249
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,928

Been sitting on the sidelines but I have to say....misogyny comes in many forms and is applied in varied ways in different audiences. The BDP crew may act decently in front of some women but they perpetuate a nasty legacy regarding the overall treatment of women. Their video is a direct result and contribution to "women hating men", but that is a complex subject.

I applaud those here holding these young men's sexist actions to public scrutiny. They are using the tools of social media to gain attention and those same tools can be brilliantly used for critique. Unlike some here, I actually think public conversations like this are good for the community. These types of actions have defined the whitewater community for far too long and most people have been quiet. Its time to let outsiders know we can be a thoughtful "community", even when that means resorting to consumer boycotts and public outing.

Sometimes you have to fight the good fight, even when it gets ugly in the public eye.

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Old 10-30-2012   #250
Goshen, New York
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post

Its time to let outsiders know we can be a thoughtful "community", even when that means resorting to consumer boycotts and public outing.

There are approximately 12 fishermen, 27 landowners and 3 angry womyns studies majors who could be considered outsiders who are even aware the "community" exists. It's like my mom always says, "bitch please".

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