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Old 10-29-2012   #191
Paddling Since: 96
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,373
Glad to see so many thoughtful posts showing up. I'd just like to reiterate what a few others have said... I watched the vid once. Its not just a matter of choosing not to watch or read or support or not. Its obvious that there is a lot of education needed here. It doesn't matter that inappropriate behavior is common elsewhere in our world. This thread is part of the mentoring process. Some of us choose to let young people know that there are lines that they need to be aware of. They may still choose to behave like self centered entitled children but IMO the vast majority of the boating community does not support them. Its good for them to feel the full weight of outrage that so many are expressing.

I'll also say that I haven't seen a whole lot of courageous public words or actions in the industry but I know there is plenty going on behind the scenes. And maybe I'm just not following the right athletes but I'm not seeing broad support for BDP. I am disappointed in a few of the "endorsements" of BDP that I've seen. It seems like an insular group that is a little less insular now. And I certainly wouldn't call them "leaders" in our sport. It seems to me that BDP is just a collection of very young "adults" that have been acting out and are now being called out by their larger community.

Actions have consequences. They are playing out now.

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Old 10-29-2012   #192
Summit County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 27
Work it out!

"Go ahead lose yourself inside this possibility, we can work it out, we can work it out, baby!"

I am passionately into outdoors, have been deeply affected by the alternative mountain and action sports communities, and care greatly to pursue potential to my fullest while living up the great, cool, sweet lifestyle of the scenes these interests offer.

I love video premiers. It is great to enjoy festivity with people into similar things. Since the '50s underground swing scene to the '60s and 70s Greatest Rock & Roll songs as well as the peace, love, & rock and roll scenes, there has been controversy among countercultures so similar to that today.

I enjoy flashing cameras. I will always fight to be a strong, beautiful, respected, freespirited woman with a life of my own that honorably graces communities yet maintains sense of self and expression beyond controversy. Perhaps even defying controversy yet with deep-rooted instilled values to overcome oppressive adversity for myself as well as the respect and sanctity of others.

This Friday I go to a video premiere... I am acquainted with the pro athletes. They are all very courteous to me. This is similar courtesy to that I have enjoyed through close acquaintanceships with pros in kayaking.

The last time I hung out in a circle with them was the first time in years I saw a guy who hands down raped me. I went through enough disbelief reliving, explaining, & sobbing over that moment to know it was true, free from that denial. We were friends of sorts. He gave me a hug, seemed happy to see me, and it was cool I got to hang out with the pros... though long gone were the days when being one and thriving supported and included in the videos themselves was, of course, a reality. So strange for things to have not gone that preferred route... to struggle with trauma, degradation, etc...

I have seen what controversy can do. Controversy distorts things as much as the perceived "perversions" themselves. I have seen this happen & this is why I care greatly to read the many perspectives, intertwined & bounced off one another, portrayed through these posts. Perhaps through all this we can establish the kind of boundaries, instilled values, and flexibility within our communities to support the thriving of our people, protect rights & honor dignity, while preserving the true character of counterculture beyond controversy.

I go to this video premiere, now, a 24 year old young woman who has seen the convoluted rights, wrongs, acceptable, and unacceptable of friendly banter, sexism, oppression, and "good fun". I can appreciate that these are the things that get you thinking and form instilled values. They are also things to approach with discretion like the punk rock and hip hop I have always enjoyed yet know I have to listen to intelligently.

I know how much I care. I know how convoluted things can get. I will always deeply respect our sports, communities, and athletes, all-around, beyond the controversy.

This Friday, having experienced these problems with women's rights, sexism, and oppression, I go to enjoy kicking off the winter with vitality for the strength of character and intellectualism that forms the discretion so pertinent in handling these scenes. I go with appreciation for a community that upholds values of respect, personal tolerance for controversy & our counterculture, forgiveness for times the line has been crossed, and apologetic caring for the vicsious cycle of my own rebellions. I go to realize that we are all in this with shared passion and talent, to find my way while caring for that of others involved, and with a prayer for healing, protection, and clarified perspectives that form great deep rooted peace at the core of cutural prerogatives deep within these shared passions.

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Old 10-29-2012   #193
Boise, Idaho
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by Phil U. View Post
I am disappointed in a few of the "endorsements" of BDP that I've seen. It seems like an insular group that is a little less insular now. And I certainly wouldn't call them "leaders" in our sport. It seems to me that BDP is just a collection of very young "adults" that have been acting out and are now being called out by their larger community.

Actions have consequences. They are playing out now.
I too am disappointed by much of the reaction, which seems to be playing out by age and generation more than anything else.

Hopefully these young adults will one day get the picture and realize the larger impacts of their actions and behavior... (which is, not ironically, confirmed when you see young women passing all of this off as a joke or kidding around).
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Old 10-29-2012   #194
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 34
Lots of shit talking here far too much. Really I think people should just go have fun. Even worse is shit talk coming from someone like mike perry. Trying to say you were a responsible employee. You could my even come to work on time or or even on the days you were scheduled. In the end you wouldnt answer you phone as you tried to get away with a boat from our shop. A real fucking example mike. Keep talking shit and just remember the only thing you have ever wanted to do is paddle along side these boys and try to appear one of their videos.

Also I ain't afraid to post my name

Ian Garcia.

I went to WCA, I lived the life running around the world paddling, I worked my ass off to do so. I'm close friends with all of these boys. At some point everyone moves on to have a job and a family. That's what I have done. As well as the rest of you. So just close it up move on there's more important shit to attend to

Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
If I didn't have a pissing match? I'm not the one who brought me into it disrespecting me personally,from there own inability to read. Nathan they start disrespecting me I stand up. You should read from the start. Since obviously you have no empathy for anybody but BDP. I'd like to see proof of this in kayaking bs. Nobody advertises any of what you say. calling an entire community including you jamooks and disrespecting us in general doesn't stand bro. Say what you want your being disrespect as well. Fun isn't the same as disrespect and if you can't have fun without disrespect I sure hope you are put in your place aswell. If BDP is a bad image why would anybody who has sense want to be involved, in anyway? Hmmm hmm hmmm

I guess I'm not aloud to stand up for myself when being disrespected right......

It went from fun and games to straight attacking people in the industry and community, And the industry took notice as did the community.. Are you honestly surprised? Like I said originally jokes on them.

These are the kind of athletes that can kill a sport before it can go professional. Nobody gonna keep throwing bills at jabronis. That's irresponsible and that's the reality of it.

If I worked at a paddling shop and talked to customer and community members this way I would be fired...
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Old 10-29-2012   #195
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Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Never tried to get away with a boat from the shop I wrote my name down that I took the boat Danielle the Barn Manager knew I took the boat. And I def wasn't about to peddle the boat over on my shoulder. Or leave it at the door because the shop wasn't open when I was able to drop it off. I'm not looking to get into a fight man you didn't work with me you never even said a word so. Yeah I did show up 5 minutes late I rode a bike to work in the winter sorry dude. As for taking days off and not showing up getting another job and doing what I planned on doing this summer which was kayaking lead me to find another job which was basically an on the spot hire. Not for 8 dollars either, sorry for bettering myself and yeah I do feel bad I didn't talk to your father about why I quit but I told my manager Danielle before the season started I needed weekends off for kayaking, as well as the store Manger Johnathon. I didn't get my requested days I had no reason to continue to work at a business I would be unhappy at. To say I worked bad and if that's what Mike thinks shame he couldn't say it to me himself. I hope we can get on as well but you have no knowledge of where I am coming from Ian. Or who I am.

Regardless of me I'm not the only one who feels the same in regards to what's gone down... As for being one of them yeah ill go kayaking have fun and be stoked. I'm always stoked when boating. But you don't know me or ever been kayaking with me coming from you this means very little to me...

Best wishs Ian and To your Family never meant for hard feelings
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Old 10-29-2012   #196
Duluth, Minnesota
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 175
Not all the young guys are defending this, I'm 27 and think the video is shit-in all ways. Did anyone else catch the "white power!" a couple minutes in? I don't recall anyone commenting on that but damn, why would you purposely keep that in the video? It seems our sport is predominately white males, but I know a lot of female paddlers, as well as Black, Asian, and Indians. I'm sure they're super pumped at how you're "progressing the sport".
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Old 10-29-2012   #197
Hood River, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2163
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by BrianP View Post
Not all the young guys are defending this, I'm 27 and think the video is shit-in all ways. Did anyone else catch the "white power!" a couple minutes in? I don't recall anyone commenting on that but damn, why would you purposely keep that in the video? It seems our sport is predominately white males, but I know a lot of female paddlers, as well as Black, Asian, and Indians. I'm sure they're super pumped at how you're "progressing the sport".
I'll one up you there. I'm 23. It's not just "old and wise vs young and dumb."
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Old 10-29-2012   #198
Preacher of the Profit Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,062

You did now. You made me go and see if I could find these videos to see what all the hype was about. The videos I saw, the ones that are still on YouTube anyway, sucked. You really couldn't watch them without being in fast forward, because the whole video was shot in slow-mo. Saw some dude with horrible Yellow Teeth a bunch of times. Then I tried to find them on FB, just to findout their not the only BDP, infact they are not even close to others in the number of users as the others.

Then I go onto see who the admin is and I was shocked. I've known Griff's dad for a dozen years and he's the Salt of the Earth. Bill is a gentlemen and has been nothing but cool and friendly to everyone he meets on the river. Sorry to see the apple fall so far from the tree. I feel sorry for the fallout that is coming down on people that have done so much to provide and inspire their kids to have everthing lost when their friends takeover as their primary rolemodels. Griff you should move back home before everything you've worked for is lost.

I would love to see how their attitudes would change if their video was being shown to a more mixed population. My students at Montbello HS would have slapped the white off them for flashing those wannabe gang signs.

But, other than having very little talent for film making- I can't see why anyone would waste their breath on them. It's America. If they are annoying enough, they might get their own reality show. We love to watch car wrecks and people fail in public.

Cutch- you forgot to add Pyrahna to your list. I saw their boats and Brown Claws (Team Pyrahna's Gimick), and if they didn't want to be associated with BDP they would trash they for stealing their shtick.
I love to dance, but who needs the music- It throws me off.
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Old 10-29-2012   #199
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Prineville, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
I tried to watch p.s. When a few minutes rolled by and no boating was being shown, I shut it off. I could care less about watching a bunch of drunk idiots off the water.
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Old 10-29-2012   #200
steamboat, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 33
I have been following this thread since the start and am wondering why no one had brought up the BDP article in the Bomb Flow magazine. I do not want to get into how rediculous that magazine is but to let something like that into a wide spread magazine that is trying to promote the sport is terrible. That interview makes me question not if but when something will happen. I for one do not like to see people being unsafe while paddling and for them to be example setters I think it is unacceptable, along with everything else that has been said.

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