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Old 10-25-2012   #111
Pocatello, Idaho
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 14
also. I guess the whole not running things that are illegal goes with the whole earning respect thing, and that would be earning the respect of those that made it illegal to possibly show enough character to be granted access some day, although it could be an un-winnable fight so make that decision on your own.

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Old 10-25-2012   #112
lmyers's Avatar
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,207
Originally Posted by Phil U. View Post
It strikes me that some of our young boating posses are like street gangs. Kids leading/initiating kids without healthy adult mentors. The language and the lack of consciousness around women is shared by both groups. One critical difference is the river can be a good teacher, but maybe not so much on social awareness.

It saddens me to see part of the community blow apart like this. I commend any adults that make an effort to reach out. These issues, especially respect for others, and more particularly misogyny, are bigger than our boating community but our community has the capacity to teach and mentor better than most because we all share a common passion. Most young people I know in the boating community are well above the social norm in regard to respecting others, and themselves, in large part because they are part of a community that is multi generational. I've known some of the young protagonists in this shit show in the past and they were good kids. It seems that social media can over expose any of us and that is what is going on now. The upside is that a broader community than the small, immediate one can give a reality check.

Everyone involved in this has something powerful in common. Maybe its time for all of us to remember this and stop tearing each other down. And for my young friends; this is not about hating, this is about caring. This is an opportunity to learn. Just because you are surrounded by BS behavior doesn't make it OK or mean that you have to adopt it. There are some clear adult voices here that care about our community and, yes, care about you. The timing won't be right for some of you and you will stay reactive but for all of you, know that the clean line through a hard rapid is similar to a clean line through life. The team work we share on the rio is similar to the team work required to style life with our brothers and sisters. A pure heart and a clear mind will go far on the rio and in life.

Take a step back and consider some of what you're hearing beyond your bros patting you on the back.

I think Phil had the most poignant commentary on this matter yet. The kayaking community is truly an awesome thing. At any given time on the river I might have paddlers with me ranging from 19-60.... and this is solely because of the river....

I don't really care if BDP wants to make some shitty disrespectful videos. They have the right to do so, and there are people who enjoy it. However, this doesn't mean criticism from the kayaking community isn't warranted. It will without a doubt in my mind make access and water law issues a little more difficult for those that have to deal with the attorneys and courts.... it will be seen by those you hope will not... but that's your right and some people may have to work a little harder because of it.

This fad, like others, will pass. Don't let it stress you out, go enjoy the river. The best way to counteract this kind of negativity is to go boating and be extra respectful to EVERYONE you encounter. Like Mike said respect gets respect.

GARNA’s mission is to foster stewardship of the resources of the greater Arkansas River region through education, volunteerism and experiences.
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Old 10-25-2012   #113
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1969
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by lmyers View Post
respect gets respect.
truly! funny to some, maybe. something worth getting heated over? absolutely not. That just makes it more popular. It seems as though the boating community is in a state of confusion (at least online) and perhaps this thread is just what it needs to come back around to what IMO it should be.

Peeps getting awesome, enjoying the awesomeness of rivers, and doing their best to respect everyone else's right to do the same, and help whomever without question if need be. If you as an individual feel you have valuable knowledge/skills to contribute (if not, watch and learn something) to the trip/rapid/incident.

I will say that my boating buddies are pretty much the same as my other shred friends (ski, board, MTB, DBs, SUP, or whatever) the difference I see in some of the sports is that on a resort mountain it's all about ego and assholishness (that's why I ride Monarch, it's where Bob Marley would ride) to others on the hill. If you're not crew, you are enemy...

Unfortunately over the years this attitude has creeped into the boating community and so many peeps are just too cool for school. What can be done about it though besides raise awareness.

With that said these kids throw down and boat nasty. The good news for those offended by their off river behavior is that being a successful pro athlete in the extreme sports world is extremely short lived, so you won't have to endure these shenanigans for too long before someone breaks a spine and can't drop stouts the same ever again. Also giving themselves health complications later in life.

I guess what I'm saying is let Karma work this one out because any of you that are truly boaters know that it is alive and well more so on the river than anywhere.

Oh you stole that sweet kayak, here's your broken spine...
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Old 10-25-2012   #114
Bozeman, Montana
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 31
I'd like to see more from Ben Aylsworth and Good Gravy Productions. Cock Pit was a masterpiece.
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Old 10-25-2012   #115
Heltown, Montana
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by TheFlophouse View Post
I'd like to see more from Ben Aylsworth and Good Gravy Productions. Cock Pit was a masterpiece.
I hear ya. All the new shit is a bit soft. Ben, Boozy, Whiskey Boys and Red Dragon got down. It's all been done with shittier equipment and heavier cameras. This thread is sweet, it just keeps goin and goin and goin...all to try to create an illusion of happy little boaters.
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Old 10-25-2012   #116
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The Bitterroot, Montana
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 451

If kayakers had a better image we would have access to Dearborn river in Montana. Including Falls Creek. Yes it effects us directly! Why would they care? they can go somewhere else like chile, Mexico and run real church they don't need this local hoopla.

Respect isn't given its earned.[/QUOTE]

Actually that was BF that posted vid of poaching falls. Also pissed those land owners off.
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Old 10-25-2012   #117
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Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
"Create an illusion of happy little boaters" welcome to reality most boaters are happy. Billy goat you have a piss poor attitude when it comes to locals. Pretend like it doesn't matter! The rest of the world isn't some jackpot of incompentant idiots and Haters! The choices we make have the possibility to effect us all! Gonna call the Dearborn land owner a Hater? More like tired of disrespect! Do you take time to talk to the people who give us access to these incredible places?

As for comparing YLA poaching to anything you guys stand for is hilarious! Condem us all for running a river that shouldn't be closed to us in the first place from unneccessary laws to keep fishing by boat out of the rivers in the park(aka commercial fishing). And we make vids of it right??????? The only media from in the park was your buddies picture at Cave Falls, condemn my ass! Go back to whatever you were doing before BDP good luck

NRA Gun Safety Rules
Here you go guys take some time to check out this , maybe take a hunter safety coarse to learn to handle those firearms properly and be competent responsible "Adults"( cause that's whats next after being a teenager)... Good luck
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Old 10-25-2012   #118
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Bozeman, Montana
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Breaking the Rules: Doing Right Means Sometimes Ignoring the Law | Outdoor Adventure |

Just because kayaking is counter culture doesn't mean we have any right to look like a bunch of assholes. Gonna be one cause you can? That's surely well thought out.....

I'm sure ill end in the next BDP rant about haters...
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Old 10-25-2012   #119
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Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Judd Spencer "Been having a little trouble with the land owner that owns the access and parking at top of deep creek. although i know Idaho paddlers always respect land as well as clean up after themselves the farmer doesn't always think so and has a bad image of kayakers, please pick up any trash you see, no ruts and always be cautious of parking. Just spent a half hour on the phone with the guy defending the Idahoan boaters.He is willing to work with us long as we respect him. Hate to see a good thing a hassle to do. Thanks" posted Wednesday
Yeah image doesn't matter right?? Point proven in there own local area, how Ironic! Maybe Davis and BDP will get the picture. If not than I don't know what to say
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Old 10-25-2012   #120
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Bozeman, Montana
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Since I see you peeking at the bottom of the screen Davis this is just for you
Hate me all you want just trying to help you out boss. Gonna make fun of some kids too?

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