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Old 10-24-2012   #91
Gdaggle's Avatar
McCall, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2
I know some of the BDP dudes and know they are good guys. They love what they do and work hard to do it. I'm talking of paddling here. They will paddle shit that is so old, battered and broken, just for the sake of kayaking or work jobs to support what they love.

The fact that anyone who watched pleasure strokes with a serious attitude and then decided to voice their opinion is misguided. it was a joke for fucks sake. You didn't have to watch it and no one sat you down, held your eyes open and forced you to do anything. Just don't watch what you have the option not to and go on living your life, not worrying about those who are enjoying theirs differently. if you didn't do what they have done, then i feel sorry for you late teenage to early twenty years. couldn't help but put some input into this nonsense after seeing how riled up people are getting. run some shit and be happy you're kayaking when you have the opportunity

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Old 10-24-2012   #92
Paddling Since: 96
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,373
C'Mike, Many of us know who you really are through the Buzz. I know I've got your back. Let it go. This kind of a pissing match ain't worth the effort.


It strikes me that some of our young boating posses are like street gangs. Kids leading/initiating kids without healthy adult mentors. The language and the lack of consciousness around women is shared by both groups. One critical difference is the river can be a good teacher, but maybe not so much on social awareness.

It saddens me to see part of the community blow apart like this. I commend any adults that make an effort to reach out. These issues, especially respect for others, and more particularly misogyny, are bigger than our boating community but our community has the capacity to teach and mentor better than most because we all share a common passion. Most young people I know in the boating community are well above the social norm in regard to respecting others, and themselves, in large part because they are part of a community that is multi generational. I've known some of the young protagonists in this shit show in the past and they were good kids. It seems that social media can over expose any of us and that is what is going on now. The upside is that a broader community than the small, immediate one can give a reality check.

Everyone involved in this has something powerful in common. Maybe its time for all of us to remember this and stop tearing each other down. And for my young friends; this is not about hating, this is about caring. This is an opportunity to learn. Just because you are surrounded by BS behavior doesn't make it OK or mean that you have to adopt it. There are some clear adult voices here that care about our community and, yes, care about you. The timing won't be right for some of you and you will stay reactive but for all of you, know that the clean line through a hard rapid is similar to a clean line through life. The team work we share on the rio is similar to the team work required to style life with our brothers and sisters. A pure heart and a clear mind will go far on the rio and in life.

Take a step back and consider some of what you're hearing beyond your bros patting you on the back.


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Old 10-24-2012   #93
caspermike's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,507
Yeah I'm done with it buddy. thanks Phil going go enjoy my self this weekend hopefully find somebody that is keen on adventure. solo boating isn't near as fun when you can share something special.
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Old 10-24-2012   #94
San Jose, CA, California
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 433
I propose every paddler on this form goes boating. We should all do a group goar/pumphouse run in the spring and practice some of the skills that PHIL_U is speaking to.
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Old 10-24-2012   #95
Yopal, Colombia
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5
The cultural implication

"What are you guys about to go do?"
(holding a shotgun) "Shoot some b*tches."
-"Pleasure Strokes" by BDP

There seem to be two main defenses of this kind of behavior going around.

The first is that it isn't serious, that it's all a big joke for the sake of entertainment, and that that makes it OK. I have to disagree with this defense for several reasons. First, your entertainment is not worth somebody else's dignity. Statements and actions like those portrayed here are affronts to the humanity of the people on the other end. Their intent is to amuse, but to amuse yourself at the expense of somebody else is to declare your narcissism to the world. Some argue that these things are happening between friends, and that that makes it OK, but when "jokes" like these are published to an international forum, the joke is no longer between friends.

Which brings me to the second defense, that if we don't like it, we don't have to watch it. That's true, of course. We don't have to watch it. The argument forgets, however, that we do have to live in the climate it creates - a climate where violence against women is normalized. Katie Dean posted about being a young woman in the kayaking community, and that because she was strong and knew how to take care of herself the boys knew what line not to cross with her. What I'm asking is, should she have had to? The culture as it stands now puts the onus on the victim to stand up for him/herself, but shouldn't the onus be on the other person not to victimize the people around him? This same culture is the one that believes in the "Did you see what she was wearing? She was asking for it." defense of sexual assault. Degradation is not the fault of the victim, it is the fault of the perpetrator. The boys at BDP might not think of themselves as sexist, but their behavior says otherwise, and the only thing accomplished by publishing such behavior in a public forum is to declare it normal and appropriate.

To illustrate the point of normalcy, try this experiment. In the BDP quote that starts this thread, try replacing "b*tch" with "n*gger." There was a time in history where culture allowed such a statement to be normal, and it was a time when black people were hated for nothing other than their skin color (let's be honest, many people still have this problem). Now is that epoch for women, when hatred for hatred's sake is scapegoated on the excuse of sex. History will shed light on the ignorance of our times, it will honor people like Eve Ensler (Vagina Monologues) the way it already honors Martin Luther King Jr. We don't have to wait for history, though. Culture is the name we give to collective norms, and we can change those collective norms by vocalizing our desire to. Every person has this responsibility personally, and the louder your voice, the greater your responsibility.

BDP, I don't have an online video with more than 7,000 views. You do. Use the power of your voice to make the world better, not to perpetuate the violence and hatred we already have too much of.

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Old 10-24-2012   #96
North Ga, Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3
Now, I'm not saying there's any truth to this, but I heard through the grape vine that the BDP boys have been murdering young children since 2007...
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Old 10-24-2012   #97
louisville, Kentucky
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6
Fall up that post? Are you serious? Did you graduate high school?
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Old 10-24-2012   #98
louisville, Kentucky
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6
Cayo2. I'm glad to offend you. Obviously you will be in hell too. Enjoy
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Old 10-24-2012   #99
North Ga, Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by mattheha
Fall up that post? Are you serious? Did you graduate high school?
If that is directed towards me, no, I can assure you I'm not serious...
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Old 10-24-2012   #100
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Bazzaro, World
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,324
Originally Posted by Jake. View Post
Now, I'm not saying there's any truth to this, but I heard through the grape vine that the BDP boys have been murdering young children since 2007...
I think you mean they have been "killing it since 2007"

Bound is boatless man
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