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Old 07-06-2006   #21
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 498
Altho this appears to be more a lack of research than sandbagging. Maybe a Baily lite(3 portages) vs Baily designation might help in the future ala the Green. But anyway not to hurt feelings of any newcommers here's my take.

As an oldish guy that dosen't like to be hurt or scared while boating. Here goes Regaurdless of hype or rating if you can do Browns at 2k without scouting or trouble you can do all CO. class III. If you can do the Numbers at 2000 with out scouting and catching at least one eddy in #1#4 and #5. You will not have problems with other CO. IV's. If you can do Gore between 750 and 1k portaging Gore and Tunnel without problem you will not have problems on any CO. IV+. Ratings Guide Books and Internet hype aside. These measuring sticks have kept me out of trouble for the last 20 years.

I don't buy into the Colorado is harder. But when the water is up it can get scary. So if your staying on the III when it's high and avoiding the IV's then jumping to the IV+-V- when it goes down you're skipping a step in the process. Good luck out here. sj

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Old 07-06-2006   #22
pnw, Washington
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sj, well said

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Old 07-06-2006   #23
I kayak DH.
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Greater tri cities metro area, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 794
those are great yardsticks to use, I'm always trying to come up with my own for when people ask what to hop on next to step up a little.

My comments about the east were based on the rivers I ran out there & I was used to smaller water & was dissapointed by what we did out there, each run we did seemed to be over-rated in comparison (gauley, yak, cranberry...)
But as mentioned it all depends on what you're comfortable with.

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Old 07-06-2006   #24
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 272
i think a point that was missed in the initial post was this... if you EVER call Bailey, Bailey"z" the river gods will spank you proper.
"I would drag my balls across broken glass just to hear her fart into a walkie talkie" -Jay Drury
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Old 07-06-2006   #25
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 855
Originally Posted by brandf
It's all class III if you're on line.
LOL...very true

"Deerhunter rapid on Baileys is so a class 5, as is 1 Falls w/ 3 little drops after it. Now, Superhero is what we call a 5 plus."
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Old 07-07-2006   #26
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 11
I have only run bailey a couple of times first time was 3-4 years ago around 900 cfs it was stout alittle over my head at the time definitely more than what I thought I was getting into. After portaging the first drop of four falls and running the next three I thought to myself, if thats the named rapids this was going to be a cake walk. The advice after four falls was its all boogie water from hear to super max. That was some heads up read and run, probable some of the toughest and continuous boogie water. Got through it with mutiple rolls and braces but it was kicking to say the least.

I can totally understand someone thinking that the rating was low, going back and running around 400 cfs wasn't even comparable to 900 cfs, that run gets exponentially more difficult with water. Running it your first time down around 600 cfs after hearing people lolly-gag down it at lower flows isn't comparable. The flow has already dropped so go back get used to it and then when it comes back up you will be ready.
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Old 07-08-2006   #27
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 331
If you avoid every hole, it's all class III.
"So in two seconds, away we went, a sliding down the river, and it did seem so good to be free again and all by ourselves on the big river and nobody to bother us." -Mark Twain (The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn)
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Old 07-08-2006   #28
pnw, Washington
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Hansen, the quote I remember you saying is "its all class II if you skip the features", thats the one i remember
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Old 07-08-2006   #29
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From my point of view, I think that people don't use +/- enough or take them seriously enough. Something rated class IV- is two whole grades above III. I'd still call the numbers IV- at any level because browns is class III and definitely way easier than the numbers (maybe some of you numbers downgraders haven't been to browns lately?). American Whitewater put out a booklet rating standard rapids at certain flows throughout the country and I think their guide is pretty good if you can find one.
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Old 07-08-2006   #30
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 335
Of course it's all flow dependant,I'd run Bailey in the 2's and 3's wouldn't go near it at 650 /swim 50,yeah 4 falls{excluding 1st} and Tampax seem overrated but the Tights and Trashcan f with me.
Try Brown's at 3000 excellent busy IV ,instead of gay overcrowded III like it is at say 1500,it's way batter than #'s or the Gorge low,or Parkdale ragin'.
South Lander I think you caught it running strong.

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bag, bailey

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